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 Post subject: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:39 am 
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I recently tried to persuade someone to watch BSG. (don't know if I'm successful yet)
I said how BSG was wonderful, that there were only shades of grey, no manicheism, no "good" vs "bad" guys.

Then I saw the actual wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar ... _series%29

Quote:
Part of this is due to a growing schism within the humanoid Cylons, led by the villainous Cylon Number One, Brother John Cavil.

I think that's really a waste. :angry:

We really didn't need such a thing.
So, "no, no, it isn't our (humans/Cylons/living beings in general) fault", it's the fault of the arch-villain Cavil; it's his fault".
"So there is nothing to blame us for, since we weren't responsible"
Is that the final message???
:scowl:

PS:
Quote:
Stories also deal with the concept of perpetuated cycles of hate and violence driving the human/Cylon conflict, and religious issues, with the implication of an active God whose angelic agents intervene on behalf of the main characters, most notably Gaius Baltar.
Ah, and anyway, we can do anything we want without consequences, because it's God's will.

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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:24 am 
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intervene on behalf of the main characters, most notably Gaius Baltar.
:head: Thats all I have to say, well that and what was the last scene in the series! Sharon, Helo and Hera not Gaaius Baltar.

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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:33 pm 
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Try not to read Wiki- it's usually half as accurate as FOX News.

It's simplistic to think that a repeated cycle of violence and hubris boils down to one guy, and no one watching the show will think that everyone (even our beloved Sharon and Helo) stay clean.

Technophobicgeek introduces people to the show by having them watch 33 on; then going back for the miniseries at the end of S1. He says that usually after 33, they are rabidly hooked. You could try that?


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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:47 pm 
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Pre-S4, I'm sure the wiki entry was more "interesting" and more representative of what hard-core BSG fans believed in. :melts:
I think it isn't even wikipedia's "fault". They're not totally wrong: S4.5 brought us super-bad-boy John & his hideous hide-out.

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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:07 pm 
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Baltar...a great character...until they couldn't figure out what to do with him... and turned him into a really boring religious figure...with a cult that really didn't do much. :sadcheer:


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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:32 am 
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Well, I can beat a dead horse as well as anyone. I did think the whole Cavil super-villain think cheapened the show, for reasons Pierre summarizes nicely. Not too wild about the way in which the God thing was done, either. Viewed from one perspective, it does resolve anyone of responsibility for anything (even super villain Cavil) since they were all being manipulated to one end result.

Lots of comments about that on SyFy. Here's an interesting one:

Just a thought. As many have noted, to some extent the whole "higher power" thing is also borrowed from the original series. You know, the Beings of Light and their glowing ship. I have always thought that had something to do with how RDM ultimately envisioned tieing up his series, either originally or as he was trying to get the snake back in the bag.

The difference is that the "higher power" in the original series wasn't directly implicated in the whole thing. The Colonials just ran into some Beings of Light who dramatized the need for individuals to choose sides and who ultimately took an interest in them. Sort of like a famous professor with a promising freshman. That's kind of cheesy, but not out of line for the state of science fiction on TV in the 1970s. But in the new BSG, that has transmuted into something potentially more sinister. We have a "higher power" associated with the destruction of a planet who intervened to send five emissaries from that planet to the Twelve Colonies, emissaries who arguably made a bad situation worse. Then there's the whole "you don't blame the flood" vibe, with its intimation that this "higher power" may have purged humanity for its sins/failures. And then there's Mitochondrial Eve, which the last bit with Head Baltar and Head Six pretty much confirms as the point of the whole exercise. They were led to their end for this: "Law of averages. Let a complex system repeat itself long enough, eventually something surprising might occur. That too is in God's plan." [Rough translation: an astonishing number of tries, in this case each at unimaginable cost, might eventually yield something interesting that may very well produce the same end result for the dynamics in a complex system, and some j@ckass thinks that's a plan. Nice work if you can get it, I suppose. ]


One of the responses:

I agree with this also. For me the series ends with Adama sitting on his hillside and I hate the Times Square scene. It would have worked better for me if the the little mysteries, like Head Six, Roslin's visions, the Eye of Jupiter, even Kara's father, actually had been left as mysteries. I would have preferred that Kara did not find her body on nuclear Earth and just kept on living on New Earth (and no I am not particularly a Starbuck/Apollo shipper). To my mind the smug and sadistic Head Six and Head Baltar actually removed any mystery or ambiguity about what was going on.

The implications of the BSG ending leave me cold if I think about it much. I prefer endings like Bladerunner, where everything is hell but hope still exists, as demonstrated by compassion finding its way into the unlikeliest of moments. And a note for Cult Baltar--if you have to give speeches at the end, study Roy Batty for maximum impact with minimal words. :)


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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:46 am 
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I think they ended it with a dart board, close you eyes and just throw.

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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:23 pm 
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There are a lot of mysteries and all we got to only half explain them were convoluted and cockeyed stories pounded out by twisted minded guys.


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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:40 pm 
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Or an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters... :D


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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:21 am 
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Pierre wrote:
They're not totally wrong: S4.5 brought us super-bad-boy John & his hideous hide-out.


Well, I think The Plan is going to double down on the "super villain John Cavil" decision.

The possible upside of that is, however, that I think The Plan will portray Boomer in a very sympathetic light. Not because she deserves it so much (deserve's got nothin' to do with it), but I think it will happen for purely practical storytelling reasons. If you have a villain then you need a hero to be in conflict with them to keep the audience's interest. Boomer is the obvious (and pretty much only) choice for a Cylon heroine. Given how she was the one who at the very end of her story arc rescued Hera from Cavil's planned vivisection (or whatever it was Simon was going to do) to deliver her to the Colonials and also the content of the promos we've seen I think Boomer as the heroic character of The Plan seems very likely.

Or maybe she'll be the villain and we'll learn that she was manipulating poor ol' John the whole time.

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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:57 am 
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Chris is right, at some point they have to square downloaded don't they?

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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:09 am 
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weissman wrote:
Chris is right, at some point they have to square downloaded don't they?


I guess not. :shrug:

Just thought I'd tag this on to this thread. Someone sent it to me, and I found it interesting that it explicitly mirrors Ted's mulligan idea about Seasons 3 and 4 at the end.

Daybreak Review

The final episode of Battlestar Galactica has come and gone and - I must say - I was disturbingly close to the mark with some of my predictions (please note: I assume you’ve seen the episode, so expect spoilers).

Overall, I give it a 6 out of 10 (which is about what I’d give the last two seasons of the show on the whole as well).

The final episode managed to tie up some threads quite nicely, while using deeply unsatisfying deus ex machina gibberish to resolve others. Some things were just ignored entirely. After the disaster that was Season 3, BSG never really regained its narrative footing, so I guess it’s no surprise that the series ended so haphazardly. Still, I’d hoped that there would be something at the end that the series had been driving towards on a macro-level and I was disappointed that that didn’t work out to be the case.

I realize that the show eventually became “character-driven” rather than “story-driven”, but far too many important elements of the show’s core narrative were just glossed over or ignored. There’s still a need for attention to the narrative - especially in a show that got its initial momentum from its mysteries, rather than its characters.

Anywho, general thoughts -

The Good:

- The resolution of the Adama/Roslin arc. By far, this was the best thing BSG did over the past two seasons. It was handled with consistency and an emotional sensibility that never deteriorated into saccharin glurge, even during its sweetest moments. The treatment of their relationship in the final episode was excellent.

- Adama himself. He really was the only character we ever got to understand properly. His evolution throughout the series was sensible and satisfying. His motivations were coherent and his ideas made sense. The flashbacks in the final episodes helped to add the last bits of detail to his character (unlike all the OTHER flashbacks, which were just stupid). In the end, all that was missing was a mustache.

- Space fights! Oh yeah, the show is called BATTLEstar Galactica. Maybe it’s not a bad idea to occasionally have some action to go with the relentless death march of soap-opera nonsense and mysterious Jimmy Hendrix-themed metaphyics.

- Galactica’s final jumps. Not the part where Starbuck is using Hera’s awareness of her ghost dad’s failed career as a lounge singer to find New Earth - that part sucked. The final jumps themselves were just very cool. Jumping into the Cylon colony - badass. Taking tons of heavy fire - badass. RAMMING into the colony - badass. Twisting and throbbing after the final jump - badass. It harkened back to the series’ greatest moment - Galactica belly-flopping into the atmosphere of New Caprica at the start of Season 3. So very, very badass.

- Cavil’s final acts. What can I say, by the time it happened, “gun-in-mouth” seemed like a pretty reasonable choice - both for him AND the viewers. He also managed to be the only truly menacing thing in the episode (his walk down the corridors of Galactica was legitimately creepy).

- The Music. It was pretty sweet.

The Bad:

- Starbuck vanishes. Honestly. What the hell was she supposed to be? Just a straight up “It’s a Wonderful Life”-style angel? I get that the show had a strong metaphysical component, but that was just ridiculous. And why did her dad know the magical musical coordinates to Fake Earth? Ugh.

- All the other stupid Angel Nonsense. After all these episodes, THAT’s the explanation for the Caprica/Baltar visions? They’re FUTURE ANGELS. Anything - ANYTHING AT ALL - would have been better. Baltar was driven mad with guilt. The Cylons put a chip in his head. He was a Cylon. It was all Bob Newhart dreaming. ANYTHING else.

- The Apollo Plan Launch all the spaceships into the Sun? Along with all of the supplies and technology? THAT’s the plan? And everyone agrees! Fling the ships into the Sun? Why not?! We all get to have sex with early primates! Who needs science?

Last I checked, your ENTIRE CIVILIZATION has three doctors - one of them is old and smokes a lot, one is in jail for killing the Space Amish and ONE of them is John Hodgman. I’m betting that defibrillators and flu vaccine MIGHT have come in handy while you’re all out seducing cavemen and trying to figure out how to farm after LIVING ON A SPACESHIP for years and years.

Oh, and splitting up the remnants of humanity? Smooth move, that. If there’s one thing Scooby Doo taught us it’s that splitting up is always the Path to Success. I wonder how they decided who got sent to the crappy parts of earth and who got to live in southern California?

- Mitochondrial Eve = Caveman sex or Inbred Genocide. There’s no good way around this. Apollo’s plan hinges on the fact that, at some point, Hera bangs a caveman OR the space humans hunted the earth humans into extinction, then got into some hot-hot inbreeding action. Either way, so very creepy.

- No ending for Adama and Tigh. They’ve been best friends for decades, have faced challenges and trials greater than any faced by the rest of the characters and they stuck it out regardless. And in the end, we don’t see so much as a firm handshake or a knowing nod before they PART WAYS FOREVER. Lame, guys. LAME.

- Unexplained religious gibberish. So, who is “god” again? We now know he doesn’t like “that name”, but beyond that he’s even more inscrutable than the “god” most folks believe in - which is saying something. Why is he making robots have sex with people? Is god actually Jimmy Hendrix? That appears to be the strongest case one can make - god digs sweet guitar licks and robot/human, angel/human, caveman/human intercourse, but isn’t terribly fond of polytheism or explaining himself. Awesome. Somebody write this stuff down!

The Ugly:

- The final coda. Fourth-wall-breaking, pedantic, anti-science bullshit. It was like getting hit over the head with a Stupid Stick (”These people are… just… like… YOU! Purchase an Aibo at your PERIL! Go to church or Asimo will walk up your stairs all kill you!”). Awful - just… AWFUL.

Final Thoughts:

In the end, I think that the first half of the entire BSG series will stand as some of my favorite TV programming ever. The show rarely stumbled (remember when the “Black Market” episode was BSG’s major flaw?), had a coherent vision of its characters and narrative and was consistently producing thought-provoking (rather than simply confusing) stories that had resonance and commented on the state of our world in a clever, engaging way. About 1/3 of the way through Season 3, however, things went sideways and never got fully back on track.

If you’ve never watched BSG, it’s still worthwhile. Even during its weak years, it was still better than 90% of what’s on television. My recommendation would be to watch it from the beginning, then stop after “Collaborators” (about 1/3 of the way through Season 3). That way, you’ll have nothing but fondness for the show. Also, you’ll never have to watch the boxing episode. Or the Space Amish episode. Or the ridiculous Cylon base ship sex-room episodes. Or the stuff about eating algae.


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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:18 am 
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I wonder what they wound up doing with Starbuck's ovaries.

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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:37 am 
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I just wanted to comment that I think I am the only person who has no problem with the poofing out of Kara Thrace's body; I think it's because I am conversant with so many systems of worship/gods, and it totally made sense to me, because (and the Hybrid said it) "You are the harbinger of death, Kara Thrace."

In a lot of mythos, those people are avatars (not the 100x100 pixel or James Cameron varieties), of the godly sort. Avatars are the mouthpieces of the gods, put amongst humans to give humans the tools to save themselves. Avatars won't save you from total destruction, but they will generally give you enough information to fumble your own way to salvation. Most times, they appear human, and interact with humans as one of them, just with an extra options package. And generally, when an avatar's task is completed and the story is finished, they say their goodbyes and peace out.

So I never have been bothered by the vanishing Starbuck, because from the moment we discovered Kara Thrace's dead body, I assumed the Starbuck we saw was a mouthpiece of the Gods.


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 Post subject: Re: A little S4.5 bitching, if you don't mind
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:46 pm 
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So basically

Lee's idea =Stupid, not realistic and no one in his right mind would go along with it.

Adama= Good

Sharon, Helo and Hera=Perfect :cheer: what more could you want

Kara=?

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