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 Post subject: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:32 am 
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She was an interesting character who unfortunately perished in a deleted scene, which ironically means she's alive (given RDM's stance that deleted scenes don't count in cannon) but that only means she had more screentime than Simon. <sigh> In "The Hub," we're given a brief glimpse into an Eight who chose to download the memories of Sharon Agathon. Although we see the shadow of Athena cast over this person, especially in the deleted scenes where she is visably upset by D'Anna mentioning Hera and needing to be calmed down by Helo, she chose to act in a way no other Eight considered by doing something the Eights (by D'Aanna's own admission) don't do. The show has inferred that the Ones and the Twos share memories (based on how multiple versions of the said characters seem to know exactly the same thing) but the Eights don't. Out of millions, she made a unique choice, and it makes me wonder what kind of person Eighthena was. IMHO, it seemed she was trying to find herself, having trouble differing herself from the memories she now shared with Athena, but she also built up this idea of how she thought things should be from her speech to the pilots to her realization that Helo was going to follow Roslin's orders and go against the agreement. I think she was an interesting character, and she seemed to have a lot of say in what was going on. She could have been a leader, certainly of the Eights, and it would have been revealing to see how Athena would have responded to an Eight who was exactly in the same place she was four years ago. Any thoughts you'd like to share about Eighthena?

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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:26 am 
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YES! Now that we can finally talk about her. But I have to go to bed, so I'll be back to this discussion tomorrow night or Monday.


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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:45 am 
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I thougth Fakethena was kind of neat. She certainly had spunk and actually seemed to have picked up some integrity from an act humans would consider dishonest. It really brought into relief the central incomprehensibility of Cylons--they can do something humans simply can't deal with. Fakethena became Athena who previously became Boomer (who got screwed by the writers ;) ).

When you do that, do you literally become that person up to the point of memory transfer? That seems like an obscenity to us, but it was natural to Cylons. Maybe even fundamentally destabilizing to any kind of alliance. Would have been a fascinating subject to explore.


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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:05 pm 
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NT2 wrote:
Fakethena became Athena who previously became Boomer (who got screwed by the writers ;) ).


Yep! :)

The concept of Eighthena being so similar to Athena certainly made Helo's head spin, but I don't see who wouldn't. (It's a shame because there was so much potential with this idea!) I think the interesting thing is that the notion of sharing memories - or even absording memories - is completely inhuman and totally alien to us. I think Helo certainly saw it as dishonest, but it's the reason Athena became a better person rather than another Eight in the Cylon system when she received Boomer's memories. I certainly think, given how little exposure most Cylons probably had with the outside world, that it would fundamentally shape how they are as a person. I think it's why so many agreed with the war - humans were simply this abstract thing that they knew about and had no experience with. I think their relative "youth" would be impressionable to be greatly shaped by the memories they shared, and Eighthena obviously cared for Helo and Hera in a real way simply because she gleamed at Athena's life.

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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:16 pm 
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I agree its a shame they didn't persue her character further. I think I have said thsi before, they ended BSG about a season and a half early.

Question: Would Eighthena knowing what is what like to be in a loving realtionship with a human, and knowing that Helo was taken, look for the same thing with another human?

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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:23 pm 
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weissman wrote:
I agree its a shame they didn't pursue her character further. I think I have said this before, they ended BSG about a season and a half early.

Question: Would Eighthena knowing what is what like to be in a loving realtionship with a human, and knowing that Helo was taken, look for the same thing with another human?


I think it's possible. Part of Boomer and Athena live on inside her. She certainly has the memories to see how love can fundamentally change someone. Helo first loved Boomer, and he came to fall in love with Athena, while she was initially using him for an overall goal, and changed her entire perspective on humanity and Helo after getting to know him. I think Eighthena could've grown from the experience with Helo and become her own person, find her own identity, and possibly even falling in love with someone. I like to think it would be more of a natural progression of working alongside someone rather than thinking she has to fall in love, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:31 am 
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weissman wrote:
Question: Would Eighthena knowing what is what like to be in a loving realtionship with a human, and knowing that Helo was taken, look for the same thing with another human?

That's a really interesting thought. I mean, it sort of begs the question - how often do Cylons fall in love with each other? What's the level of intimate relationships between Cylons? There was Chief, Tyrol and Sam, but they were sleeper agents who were part of some sort of ageless, super-magical quasi Cylon race. The rest of the "real" male Cylons seemed pretty asexual towards their own race - I mean, Cavil, Doral and Simon, anyone? The female Cylons, on the other hand, had a very well-defined sexuality like Six and Boomer; they were used as honey pot agents to distract human men. They were shown as capable of passion, love and committed relationships; the male Cylons...not really. I mean, Cavil had kind of a weird, exploitive relationship with Boomer, and Leoben had something similar with Kara, but that's hardly what I'd call "love" (and I'm not really sure how intimate the relationships were, either).

I guess how this relates back to Eighthena is...if Cylons had only limited love relationships with each other, it might explain why Eighthena was so curious about Athena and Helo's relationship, and why she felt so drawn to them as a couple. I always thought she seemed hungry for something more than the Cylon experience; when she downloaded Athena's memories, she could see what she was missing in terms of interpersonal relationships.

Of course, Eighthena might just have been curious because Helo was human. I forget if, in "Downloaded" or anywhere else, the show explores the romantic relationships between Cylons. Does it?


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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:24 pm 
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weissman wrote:
Question: Would Eighthena knowing what is what like to be in a loving realtionship with a human, and knowing that Helo was taken, look for the same thing with another human?


Maybe... But could Pierre get past her being so much like Boomer and yet not her? Would Eighthena secretly worry that she was just a substitute for someone Pierre couldn't have? It's nice to think about, but I just don't know if they'd work in the long run.

(It's a shame there's a prohibition on Real Life characters in fiction because I just had a great idea for a ficlet where Eighthena realizes Pierre's avatar photo is Boomer instead of her. He tries to explain that they look exactly alike and it isn't his fault that she didn't get good screentime and flattering set lighting... Well, perhaps the ban is for the best.)

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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:05 pm 
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Chris Taylor wrote:
(It's a shame there's a prohibition on Real Life characters in fiction because I just had a great idea for a ficlet where Eighthena realizes Pierre's avatar photo is Boomer instead of her. He tries to explain that they look exactly alike and it isn't his fault that she didn't get good screentime and flattering set lighting... Well, perhaps the ban is for the best.)


That might be pretty good. :giggles:


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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:37 pm 
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Quote:
if Cylons had only limited love relationships with each other, it might explain why Eighthena was so curious about Athena and Helo's relationship
I envision Eighthena finding a cute RTF pilot and setteling down next to Helo and Sharon.

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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 3:36 am 
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I wonder if Helo's decision to follow Roslin's orders would have persuaded her to follow D'anna's lead in Revelations or defect ala Boomer against her line due to her memories of Sharon Valerii and Sharon Agathon. A part of me likes the idea of Eighthena going against the big stick policy like Boomer did in Season 3 (before she tripped over a sofa and suffered from retroactive amnesia) but she did take Helo's perceived betrayal pretty hard (and it looked like he really didn't like it, either, but I'd guess after Gaeta was shot he wasn't going to risk anyone's life defying orders).

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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Chris Taylor wrote:
Maybe... But could Pierre get past her being so much like Boomer and yet not her? Would Eighthena secretly worry that she was just a substitute for someone Pierre couldn't have? It's nice to think about, but I just don't know if they'd work in the long run.

uuuuh. Maybe Eighthena should have been presented more as a Boomer/Athena mix than an Athena copy. (but, having accessed Athena's memories, not specifically Booomer's, I guess that was it)
and... hmmmm, well, you won't be too surprised when I will say that I found her quite suddenly aggressive towards D'Anna (in a deleted scene I think), when this Three had mentioned Hera.
Heh. Boomer is unique. *uncopiable* . And she's dead. :sad: :sad: :sad: (oh no, not again...)

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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:42 pm 
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Pierre wrote:
uuuuh. Maybe Eighthena should have been presented more as a Boomer/Athena mix than an Athena copy. (but, having accessed Athena's memories, not specifically Booomer's, I guess that was it)
and... hmmmm, well, you won't be too surprised when I will say that I found her quite suddenly aggressive towards D'Anna (in a deleted scene I think), when this Three had mentioned Hera.
Heh. Boomer is unique. *uncopiable* . And she's dead. :sad: :sad: :sad: (oh no, not again...)


I think accessing Athena's memories would give her a significant chunk of Boomer's as well, since it is Boomer's memories that influenced Athena to change. Her relationship with Helo was built on knowing what a good guy he was based on having that knowledge from Sharon Valerii. I think it would've been nice to see exactly who she was now that she had both Sharons' memories.

In the deleted scene, she was agressive, but she was still dealing with having Sharon Valerii and Agathon memories, since I don't think she had much interaction with anyone outside the other Cylon models. She didn't shoot D'anna, she made it clear she was a person who'd protect Hera, but it was clear the memories were taking a hold of her in a way she likely never excepted. I would've been interested to see how she related to Galen Tyrol and D'anna's coup, especially since the Eights were the ones primarily working for D'anna. I found her interesting, and I think she could have proven to be different than both Boomer and Athena given time. The fact that she didn't try to shoot Helo or attack him when he revealed he was taking D'anna only to Roslin shows she cared about making this fragile human-Cylon alliance work, and that she was still a little naive about people.

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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:20 am 
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I think I was one of the few people who didn't care for Fakethena. I have no real reason for disliking her but there was just something about her that made her seem very untrustworthy to me. I have a feeling that if she'd survived, she would've become a threat to our favorite family. Perhaps she would've attempted to 'steal' Helo away from Athena...OR...maybe SHE would've kidnapped Hera and then been murdered for it. (And, really, who's to say she wasn't? Perhaps Fakethena didn't die and survived to swap places with Boomer. Perhaps she knocked Boomer out after Boomie escaped from the brig. Perhaps Fakethena was the one who committed all of those terrible acts that ultimately led to her death...Ooh...I kinda like that idea. *debates adopting it into my own personal fanon*). (See? I told ya she couldn't be trusted? :D )


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 Post subject: Re: Who was Eighthena, and who could she have become?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 9:10 pm 
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mfirefly10 wrote:
Perhaps Fakethena didn't die and survived to swap places with Boomer. Perhaps she knocked Boomer out after Boomie escaped from the brig. Perhaps Fakethena was the one who committed all of those terrible acts that ultimately led to her death...Ooh...I kinda like that idea. *debates adopting it into my own personal fanon*). (See? I told ya she couldn't be trusted? :D )


I like it! :D

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