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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:38 pm 
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Thanks again. I enjoyed most of BSG, so it's nice to assist others who were a little let down by the ending.

The final fights were probably the most difficult to write due to the need to juggle multiple interlocking events. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 6:37 am 
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I just finished it.

:ok:

It's brilliant. Thank you so much for all the hard work.

I'll try to give more detailed comments after it's all had a chance to soak in. There are so many layers I will definately have to read it again later. The quotes were a great touch. Very well chosen. Some of the sections were written at a level of quality and complexity that were stunning. At some point you're going to have to invent your own story from whole cloth so I can say that I knew you before you became a famous writer. Just not vampires; that's been done to death.

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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:44 am 
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Just thought I'd chime in again with another blurb about how great this is. Like Ariallie said on the SyFy Board--this actually beings the premise of Season One full circle in a way the show never did.

And like Chris says, the quotes were great. Especially the one about having to write only one true sentence, so write the truest one you know. That's what everyone is doing down the homestretch. They're writing the truest sentence they know. And it all hands off to Boomer, who finally fulfills her premise from Season One, her death on Galactica, and Downloaded. And I love it that she knows she didn't do it alone.

You don't find something this special very often. I really would have paid good money for this.

Thnaks again for all of it. :hugs:


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:55 am 
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One more thought. In the beginning, it seems clear that several of you folks contributed inspiraiton to this. A few even contributed pieces to it here and there.

You should be proud.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:11 pm 
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Crifa wrote:
WOW!
I WANT MOAR PLOX!
I have nothing to interest me at work now....



If you liked NT2's writing in Sometimes A Stupid Notion (which I may abbreviate as SaSN for convinience ) then another story you might read is Midnight Courage, also by NT2. Even though I think Sometimes A Stupid Notion is a better story and Midnight Courage is more Boomer focused (not a problem for me, but some people may prefer a other characters to get more column inches) it is still a very, very good story and if you enjoy NT2's style then this is an obvious read. I'm surprised that Midnight Courage has gotten so little reading and comments since NT2 has developed such a following from SaSN. I suspect a lot of new readers simply don't know about it and NT2 is too modest to brag about how great it is.

Sometimes A Stupid Notion has many inside jokes and references to other things (or people) here on ATS. Pierre as Captain of the Guard, Boomer as New Caprica's Music Director, etc. I think every one of Pierre's Boomer stories has some reference in SaSN. Just go here and the links are at the bottom:

http://www.acrossthesalt.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=22

All the different Fanfic categories here at ATS have a similar page to help new readers find stories they might like. If you enjoy Pierre's style then don't limit yourself to just Boomer fics or you'll miss his best (IMHO) work: Soul Catcher.

Not being as modest as NT2, I will go ahead and pitch my own stories as well. I am very proud to say that the very first line of dialog in Sometimes A Stupid Notion is a reference to my own story Obstinate Tin Soldier (which I may abbreviate as OTS for convinience). I won't claim that you can't understand the beginning of SaSN without having therefore read OTS. Nor can I claim that OTS will replace your SaSN fix (I think SaSN has a level to it that is beyond my writing), but it does have the advantage of being another long, serialized, Boomer-centric story to consume your otherwise potentially productive time. :)

SaSN is a masterpiece and I won't say all the writing here is so good, but I'd still encourage you to look around ATS. There are little treasures everywhere. Oh, and one last suggestion: if you're a Doc Cottle fan at all then you should check out Keepsakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:47 am 
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Chris Taylor wrote:
I just finished it.

:ok:

It's brilliant. Thank you so much for all the hard work.

I'll try to give more detailed comments after it's all had a chance to soak in. There are so many layers I will definately have to read it again later. The quotes were a great touch. Very well chosen. Some of the sections were written at a level of quality and complexity that were stunning. At some point you're going to have to invent your own story from whole cloth so I can say that I knew you before you became a famous writer. Just not vampires; that's been done to death.


You are more than welcome.

As I've said many times, there are lots of layers, but I think they came together fairly well. In some ways, when you look back on it, it's like a giant echo chamber of the BSG God and the dilemma that created it. And the quotes were meant to help guide the reader through what is conceptually happening as the story reaches its fruition. Sort of little crutches in case it got too stunningly complex. :wink:

The ultimate contrast is our heroes not doing what the tragic giants who created the BSG God did. Our heroes didn't keep fighting to the bitterest of ends; they gave up, one after the other. But that's how they quit hating, which was the exit.


Last edited by NT2 on Sat May 15, 2010 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:58 am 
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sunshine_alien wrote:
Just thought I'd chime in again with another blurb about how great this is. Like Ariallie said on the SyFy Board--this actually beings the premise of Season One full circle in a way the show never did.

And like Chris says, the quotes were great. Especially the one about having to write only one true sentence, so write the truest one you know. That's what everyone is doing down the homestretch. They're writing the truest sentence they know. And it all hands off to Boomer, who finally fulfills her premise from Season One, her death on Galactica, and Downloaded. And I love it that she knows she didn't do it alone.

You don't find something this special very often. I really would have paid good money for this.

Thnaks again for all of it. :hugs:


You, too, are more than welcome, as is everyone who read this. And yes, all of them, from Adama to Baltar to Boomer, wrote the truest sentence they individually knew. No one of those sentences was good enough, but all together they got the job done. :) And that is what Boomer meant--none of them were worthy on their own. Even in the final battle, it took Athena's begrudging acceptance of her sister, Hera's frightened love, Lee the Centurion's selfless sacrifice, Adama's trust, Simon 317's condemnation, having to face Ellen, and Galen's unconditional forgiveness to get Boomer alone to the mental state she needed to find. Not to mention Lee the Human saving her beforehand and Terry's constant support. So it was a total team effort. :phew:

And you can still pay good money. Don't let me stop you. :biggrin:

Just kidding.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:01 pm 
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NT2 wrote:
The ultimate contrast is our heroes not doing what the tragic giants who created the BSG God did. Our heroes didn't keep fighting to the bitterest of ends; they gave up, one after the other. But that's how they quit hating, which was the exit.


I didn't realize that! I read it but I didn't see the larger pattern. Now that you mention it, yes I see. That is a great way to continue the theme of the 4th season about an exhausted civilization that has lost confidence in itself, but yet turn it into a positive! Instead of giving up on life, having them give up on their hate or ambition or other tragic quality that drives the conflict. I'd say it was brilliant, but I think I've exceeded my quota on that word. I'll let you know when I figure out what is beyond brilliant. :) :clap:

Baltar, the one character who has always been spineless, seems to be the only one whose great climactic act is to actually do something good (kill himself to save Hera) rather than resisting the temptation to do something bad. Or would it be more accurate to say that he simply gave up on always putting the safety of his own hide before everything else?

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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 11:46 pm 
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grey_sw wrote:
NT2 wrote:
Thanks for enjoying it. I actually disliked Baltar in the show, so it was quite a struggle to do him "justice". :wink:

Baltar was my favorite for a long time -- right up until Cavil showed up, actually -- but the show sort of abandoned his character during the fourth season.

I'm of pretty much the same mind, but for me he was a protagonist until about the end of his trial. I think that in a sense his story arc pretty much concluded at that point, and maybe the writers should have had the guts to have an unfavourable verdict at the trial.

Crifa wrote:
NT2, you took the pile of steaming dung that we were left with in the finale, and turned it in to gold! Truly, this only speaks to your talent as a writer. I would seriously buy any book you published! The way you described the fight scenes, in particular, were spectacular. Reminded me of R.A. Salvatore, when he writes about Drizzt fighting Artemis.

Having finished reading SaSN the other day, I can say that I'd most likely buy it if were converted to a novel (though it might need to be shortened a bit :biggrin: ).

Well, we were all much younger when this story began :) . I think that it's grown a lot in the telling, from its opening chapters with their relative frivolousness and brevity to the gripping denouement of Nightfall,with many riveting turns along the way. The final instalment had me kind of grinning through much of it; an unexpected return to the style of yore. It was nice to see Head Baltar and Head Six thwarted rather than annihilated, too. I think NT2 also did a great job of conveying the innate warmth of Tyrol and Boomer's relationship.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:58 pm 
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Chris Taylor wrote:
NT2 wrote:
The ultimate contrast is our heroes not doing what the tragic giants who created the BSG God did. Our heroes didn't keep fighting to the bitterest of ends; they gave up, one after the other. But that's how they quit hating, which was the exit.


I didn't realize that! I read it but I didn't see the larger pattern. Now that you mention it, yes I see. That is a great way to continue the theme of the 4th season about an exhausted civilization that has lost confidence in itself, but yet turn it into a positive! Instead of giving up on life, having them give up on their hate or ambition or other tragic quality that drives the conflict. I'd say it was brilliant, but I think I've exceeded my quota on that word. I'll let you know when I figure out what is beyond brilliant. :) :clap:


Thanks.

Yeah, in some ways it's sort of the noble truths of the Buddha: there is suffering (obvious in BSG); there is the cause of suffering (clinging to something that can't be); and there is the cessation of suffering (acceptance). The latter comes via the Noble Eightfold Path: right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. They're all travelling that path, but it's most explicitly seen in Boomer since she's the unifying point of view character. She begins with the right view and the right intention, but doesn't understand how to act on that. When she faces up to Helo and Athena and rescues Lee, she's made it to right speech and right action, but then her whole sense of self is deconstructed by Ellen's revelations about the Final Five. It's not until she reconnects to the depth of her responsibilities while holding the dying Eight who tried to kill her that she gets to right livelihood (what kind of leader she is) and right effort (honor everyone by being honest with them about the problem). That alomost derails on her again until Lee manages his own right speech and action. Then, at the very end, when Galen finally attains the right mindfulness and concentration, he gives that to her, allowing Boomer to become what Athena told her they needed--the real Sharon Valerii, sum of all the parts.

And that's Boomer's essential realization--"I can't fix this." She's just Boomer, the agent of death, the one who betrayed them all. Giving up the illusion of any way out, embracing that despair, leaves her in the perfect emotional mindset to crush the BSG God's presumption when it walks a mile in her shoes, but also to forgive even it and thus save them all. Because she really has been there. And by the end, they all have. So it's very much a joint rising and advancing of the spirit on the part of everyone.

Chris Taylor wrote:
NT2 wrote:
Baltar, the one character who has always been spineless, seems to be the only one whose great climactic act is to actually do something good (kill himself to save Hera) rather than resisting the temptation to do something bad. Or would it be more accurate to say that he simply gave up on always putting the safety of his own hide before everything else?


Yep. he finally gives up on the idea that he can save himself, accepts that there's something going on that's bigger than his survival.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:24 pm 
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Scrawny71 wrote:
grey_sw wrote:
NT2 wrote:
Thanks for enjoying it. I actually disliked Baltar in the show, so it was quite a struggle to do him "justice". :wink:

Baltar was my favorite for a long time -- right up until Cavil showed up, actually -- but the show sort of abandoned his character during the fourth season.

I'm of pretty much the same mind, but for me he was a protagonist until about the end of his trial. I think that in a sense his story arc pretty much concluded at that point, and maybe the writers should have had the guts to have an unfavourable verdict at the trial.


I would agree that they didn't really seem to know what to do with him after that. The harem was just kind of embarrassing.

Scrawny71 wrote:
Crifa wrote:
NT2, you took the pile of steaming dung that we were left with in the finale, and turned it in to gold! Truly, this only speaks to your talent as a writer. I would seriously buy any book you published! The way you described the fight scenes, in particular, were spectacular. Reminded me of R.A. Salvatore, when he writes about Drizzt fighting Artemis.

Having finished reading SaSN the other day, I can say that I'd most likely buy it if were converted to a novel (though it might need to be shortened a bit :biggrin: ).

Well, we were all much younger when this story began :) . I think that it's grown a lot in the telling, from its opening chapters with their relative frivolousness and brevity to the gripping denouement of Nightfall,with many riveting turns along the way. The final instalment had me kind of grinning through much of it; an unexpected return to the style of yore. It was nice to see Head Baltar and Head Six thwarted rather than annihilated, too. I think NT2 also did a great job of conveying the innate warmth of Tyrol and Boomer's relationship.


Are you talking about all that innate warmth when they were beating the cr@p out of each other? :) Probably not.

Boomer and Galen's relationship turns out to be pivotal. If it's anyone other than him, she forces herself to go through with the final killing against her better judgement and loses the whole game. She probably does that even to him if he doesn't acknowledge her first. But by being there for her, unconditionally, he forces her to choose one last time. And by, from her perspective, accepting all the world's misery on her shoulders for one man, letting the cycles go on because she failed, she's finally ready to be the Last Citadel. Because she doesn't know that she's succeeded best. Adama's choice most specifically echoes hers, and both stand in contrast to that unknown man going down hating, trying to fix it so long ago, when the BSG God was created.

It seems to me both appropriate and ironic that Head Baltar/Cavil doesn't get that. He doesn't realize what dangerous ground he's on when Galen finally is there for her, like the real Cavil kind of sort of planned. The real Cavil didn't know how, but he knew Galen loved Sharon, always had and always would, and that was a powerful wild card. Head Baltar/Cavil just kept pushing until Boomer figured it out--"I can't fix this."

I did deliberately go back to more light-hearted fare for the final epilogue. It seemed appropriate symmetry. :biggrin:


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:21 pm 
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NT2 wrote:
Are you talking about all that innate warmth when they were beating the cr@p out of each other? :) Probably not.

But isn't violence just foreplay in BSGland? :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:08 am 
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Scrawny71 wrote:
NT2 wrote:
Are you talking about all that innate warmth when they were beating the cr@p out of each other? :) Probably not.

But isn't violence just foreplay in BSGland? :?:


I suppose it definitely was after they decided to go cave man! :giggles:


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:16 am 
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Chris Taylor wrote:
NT2 wrote:
The ultimate contrast is our heroes not doing what the tragic giants who created the BSG God did. Our heroes didn't keep fighting to the bitterest of ends; they gave up, one after the other. But that's how they quit hating, which was the exit.


I didn't realize that! I read it but I didn't see the larger pattern. Now that you mention it, yes I see. That is a great way to continue the theme of the 4th season about an exhausted civilization that has lost confidence in itself, but yet turn it into a positive! Instead of giving up on life, having them give up on their hate or ambition or other tragic quality that drives the conflict. I'd say it was brilliant, but I think I've exceeded my quota on that word. I'll let you know when I figure out what is beyond brilliant. :) :clap:


There is so much goign on in this, isn't there? You don't realize how much until the end.
Then... WHAM!

And nobody becomes a cave man. Extra credit for that.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:23 am 
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NT2 wrote:
Boomer and Galen's relationship turns out to be pivotal. If it's anyone other than him, she forces herself to go through with the final killing against her better judgement and loses the whole game. She probably does that even to him if he doesn't acknowledge her first. But by being there for her, unconditionally, he forces her to choose one last time. And by, from her perspective, accepting all the world's misery on her shoulders for one man, letting the cycles go on because she failed, she's finally ready to be the Last Citadel. Because she doesn't know that she's succeeded best. Adama's choice most specifically echoes hers, and both stand in contrast to that unknown man going down hating, trying to fix it so long ago, when the BSG God was created.

I did deliberately go back to more light-hearted fare for the final epilogue. It seemed appropriate symmetry. :biggrin:


So very much going on. :dizzy: but :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

I'm amazed that much thought could be out into Boomer while still making everyone else real characters who develop. Especially Baltar, who was a wreck by the end of the show.

And the light-hearted touch at the end was appreciated. It felt right after Nightfall, which was everything Daybreak should have been.


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