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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 4:10 am 
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sunshine_alien wrote:
Scrawny71 wrote:
NT2 wrote:
Are you talking about all that innate warmth when they were beating the cr@p out of each other? :) Probably not.

But isn't violence just foreplay in BSGland? :?:


I suppose it definitely was after they decided to go cave man! :giggles:


That's a kind of disturbing thought. Of course, it was on the show, too. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 4:13 am 
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sunshine_alien wrote:
So very much going on. :dizzy: but :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

I'm amazed that much thought could be out into Boomer while still making everyone else real characters who develop. Especially Baltar, who was a wreck by the end of the show.

And the light-hearted touch at the end was appreciated. It felt right after Nightfall, which was everything Daybreak should have been.


If you think there's a lot going on reading it, try writing it. :phew:

I notice the views have popped up quickly, so I guess someone else is reading this. I hope he/she/they enjoy it.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:55 pm 
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Okay, here is my plan.

NT2, your writing is really good. I honestly think you could write fiction professionally now. So you need to invent a totally new setting to write in that is all your own. Write a cool science fiction novel. Sell millions of copies. Then sell the rights to the movie on the condition that you get to write the screenplay. Describe one of the main characters as being exactly like Mrs. Park. Suggest strongly that she would be a good choice for casting that character. Then when you write the screenplay very carefully insert some specific scenes into it which don't actually fit the movie that well and can be removed in editing later. Then after your blockbuster movie is edited upload bootleg copies of the unusually incongruous deleted scenes here and we will rearrange them into a movie adaptation of SaSN!

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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:03 pm 
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Chris Taylor wrote:
Okay, here is my plan.

NT2, your writing is really good. I honestly think you could write fiction professionally now. So you need to invent a totally new setting to write in that is all your own. Write a cool science fiction novel. Sell millions of copies. Then sell the rights to the movie on the condition that you get to write the screenplay. Describe one of the main characters as being exactly like Mrs. Park. Suggest strongly that she would be a good choice for casting that character. Then when you write the screenplay very carefully insert some specific scenes into it which don't actually fit the movie that well and can be removed in editing later. Then after your blockbuster movie is edited upload bootleg copies of the unusually incongruous deleted scenes here and we will rearrange them into a movie adaptation of SaSN!


I wish. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:39 am 
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Still my favorite. :biggrin: :o :sad: :o :melts: :biggrin: :biggrin:

If we lived in a world where this actually could be filmed, I'd buy a dozen copies.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:58 pm 
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sunshine_alien wrote:
Still my favorite. :biggrin: :o :sad: :o :melts: :biggrin: :biggrin:

If we lived in a world where this actually could be filmed, I'd buy a dozen copies.

Filmed, novelised, drawn or turned into an audio play; I'd buy it.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:26 pm 
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This is an amazing piece of work. This is one of best pieces of sci fi writing I've ever read. It's way beyond the usual quality of fanfiction. If this didn't fly so much up RDM's nose, I'd imagine it could be published by whoever has licensed BSG novels. Who knows, maybe the nose will know just how awesome this is.

I was one of the legion of fans who felt disappointed by the finale. Boomer getting a raw deal didn't even enter into it for me. I was a Roslin /Adama shipper and I felt like while my ship had a satisfying ending, in some ways, the characters were betrayed. I felt like the ending of the Lee/Kara ship was beyond insulting to fans, and I wasn't even really a Lee/Kara shipper. I felt like so many characters: Dee, Gaeta, the Chief, Adama, Roslin sold themselves out in the end. In some ways I accepted this aspect but it felt like there was too much retconned, too much that was just weakly pasted together with no feeling of control on the part of the writer. A great writer is in control of the material. RDM did not seem in control of the material in the final season. In some ways that was because he wasn't. I think the strike really messed things up. But beyond that even the three hour finale just felt like some casting around desperate for a way to end it. Jacob from Television Without Pity described the whole Opera House prephecy as weak sauce.

I felt like every second I was reading this fanfic you were in control of the material, that you knew where it was going and I wasn't going to end up after reading 400 pages, going WTF! like I did during the finale. I felt like you managed to salvage the weak sauce and strengthen it by going back to the source--the show. I rewatched a lot of the episodes you referenced in this fic since reading it. I was amazed because you really did pick some of the strongest moments of the show to back up your case. There is great writing in Battlestar Galactica, especially in the first two seasons.

Your premise really got me thinking about the show and the meaning of the cycles "all this has happened before..." When we look at the fossil record we see that the cycle of mass extinction has played out over and over again. Most of us sense that we are at the end of one of these cycles now. I think that what RDM was trying to say in the finale. But to make this huge leap to that place at the sacrifice of all his characters, was just wrong. As you correctly point out, giving up all their technology while cylcon centurians are free to roam the universe is mass suicide of one kind or another.

I work with physicists that make simulations of all kind of astronomical catastrophes. They blow up stars over and over to learn from it. In a way, the god of BSG, and perhaps the God of our own universe as well, appears to be running some kind of simulation over and over and learning nothing from it. What a wonderful twist to just decide to kill God (or perhaps entrap him like the genie put back in the bottle?) and break the cycle. And you do it by using the very limitations that RDM put on the BSG God. That he seemed to need human actors to carry out certain parts. That he could influence them, but couldn't physically do certain things himself. That's just....well, for lack of a better word, awesome.

There are certain stories that have always been unsolvable puzzles to me. Hamlet (I loved the references by the way. The nutshell quote is probably my favorite in the whole play.) Wuthering Heights is another. WH is another endless cycle (of violence and child abuse) that is broken in the end by killing God. So not only do I feel at peace with the BSG 'verse for the first time...ever, but I feel like you helped me get Wuthering Heights as well. So thanks for that and stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:36 pm 
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Jennythenipper wrote:
This is an amazing piece of work. This is one of best pieces of sci fi writing I've ever read. It's way beyond the usual quality of fanfiction. If this didn't fly so much up RDM's nose, I'd imagine it could be published by whoever has licensed BSG novels. Who knows, maybe the nose will know just how awesome this is.

I was one of the legion of fans who felt disappointed by the finale. Boomer getting a raw deal didn't even enter into it for me. I was a Roslin /Adama shipper and I felt like while my ship had a satisfying ending, in some ways, the characters were betrayed. I felt like the ending of the Lee/Kara ship was beyond insulting to fans, and I wasn't even really a Lee/Kara shipper. I felt like so many characters: Dee, Gaeta, the Chief, Adama, Roslin sold themselves out in the end. In some ways I accepted this aspect but it felt like there was too much retconned, too much that was just weakly pasted together with no feeling of control on the part of the writer. A great writer is in control of the material. RDM did not seem in control of the material in the final season. In some ways that was because he wasn't. I think the strike really messed things up. But beyond that even the three hour finale just felt like some casting around desperate for a way to end it. Jacob from Television Without Pity described the whole Opera House prephecy as weak sauce.

I felt like every second I was reading this fanfic you were in control of the material, that you knew where it was going and I wasn't going to end up after reading 400 pages, going WTF! like I did during the finale. I felt like you managed to salvage the weak sauce and strengthen it by going back to the source--the show. I rewatched a lot of the episodes you referenced in this fic since reading it. I was amazed because you really did pick some of the strongest moments of the show to back up your case. There is great writing in Battlestar Galactica, especially in the first two seasons.


Thanks for stopping by to express your satisfaction. That's what this fiction is really all about, giving people who feel like something great slipped away (myself included) a sense of closure. I felt the first two years of the show had some fantastically strong stuff in it, but that it all slowly dwindled away. So as much as I might poke at Moore's ending, he certainly deserves credit for developing the great stuff off which this was built.

Jennythenipper wrote:
Your premise really got me thinking about the show and the meaning of the cycles "all this has happened before..." When we look at the fossil record we see that the cycle of mass extinction has played out over and over again. Most of us sense that we are at the end of one of these cycles now. I think that what RDM was trying to say in the finale. But to make this huge leap to that place at the sacrifice of all his characters, was just wrong. As you correctly point out, giving up all their technology while cylcon centurians are free to roam the universe is mass suicide of one kind or another.

I work with physicists that make simulations of all kind of astronomical catastrophes. They blow up stars over and over to learn from it. In a way, the god of BSG, and perhaps the God of our own universe as well, appears to be running some kind of simulation over and over and learning nothing from it. What a wonderful twist to just decide to kill God (or perhaps entrap him like the genie put back in the bottle?) and break the cycle. And you do it by using the very limitations that RDM put on the BSG God. That he seemed to need human actors to carry out certain parts. That he could influence them, but couldn't physically do certain things himself. That's just....well, for lack of a better word, awesome.


That's an interesting thought about astronomical catastrophe simulations. In essense, that is what the BSG God was doing--running it over and over and over in the hope that it would finally turn out right. Which it did, just not in the way God foresaw. And yeah, I envisioned that as Baltar's key insight early on--they needed him. But like the ending of all bad relationships, it turned out he ultimately didn't need them. :wink:

Jennythenipper wrote:
There are certain stories that have always been unsolvable puzzles to me. Hamlet (I loved the references by the way. The nutshell quote is probably my favorite in the whole play.) Wuthering Heights is another. WH is another endless cycle (of violence and child abuse) that is broken in the end by killing God. So not only do I feel at peace with the BSG 'verse for the first time...ever, but I feel like you helped me get Wuthering Heights as well. So thanks for that and stuff.


Glad I was able to help you find peace with BSG. And thank you very much for this thoughtful post.

Best wishes.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:10 pm 
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NT2 wrote:

That's an interesting thought about astronomical catastrophe simulations. In essense, that is what the BSG God was doing--running it over and over and over in the hope that it would finally turn out right. Which it did, just not in the way God foresaw. And yeah, I envisioned that as Baltar's key insight early on--they needed him. But like the ending of all bad relationships, it turned out he ultimately didn't need them. :wink:


Great point--their relationship with God was an abusive one or at least toxic at any rate. I was also thinking about the relationship between the BSG god and the Lords of Kobol. I liked that you made Athena look like an 8. Do you see the Lords of Kobol as cylons then, or is it just a coincidence?

Also what is Kara. You give us a behind the curtains view of the Wizard's clockworks by showing where the clone Starbucks are housed. So she is an angel but also a clone? I think if there were one thing I could change in your wonderful fic, and this is really just a nitpick, would be that Lee would wind up with a clone Starbuck instead of an 8. Still, I liked Terry. At first I thought she was just a Mary Sue, but after a while I think I saw her as a parody of a Mary Sue. Instead of being magically able to fit into the world of the "real" BSG characters, she was the odd woman out, and had to learn everything from scratch. That was brilliant. Also I loved that she was a fangirl that just happened to be in the right place at the right time and was able to become heroic.

You imply in your story that cylons are only able to reproduce when they are resurrection virgins, which has a certain kind of twisted internal logic, since one would imagine that reproduction for immortal beings would be unnecessary from an an evolutionary point of view. Since evolution is just a cog in the whole God experiment, I can see God making that rule to balance things out. All nature is a giant equilibrium machine afterall. That's what so cool about making boomer the pivot point. She represents balance more than any other character on the show.

I also got to thinking about Blade Runner which I hadn't watched in years, because of your little BR easter egg. There is so much of Blade Runner in the first two seasons I didn't ever realize. Of course there's the Edward James Olmos connection, but there's the whole concept of robots who think they are human and who are given fake memories. One thing about replicants versus cylons is of course the ability to resurrect, whereas the replicants had a planned obsolesence built in. Cavil is very much like Roy angrily facing his creator for the flaws in his creation. Data's evil twin had some of that but you really bring the nihilism of Cavil back to Roy for me, which is great.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:50 am 
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On the move, but those are some interesting points. I'll respond later.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:31 pm 
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Sorry it took so long to respond to your nice post. Been on the run with work trips, family colds, etc., etc.

Speaking of which, here's something funny. Everyone in the family passed this cold around except the soon-to-be three year old. Yesterday, he finally got it and makes a point of coming up to me all smiles, pleased and proud to announce: "I'm coughing, too!"

Jennythenipper wrote:

Great point--their relationship with God was an abusive one or at least toxic at any rate. I was also thinking about the relationship between the BSG god and the Lords of Kobol. I liked that you made Athena look like an 8. Do you see the Lords of Kobol as cylons then, or is it just a coincidence?


The Lords of Kobol in this story would be a distinct type of either Cylon or hybrid. Take your pick, which ever works best for you. They weren’t Gods in the sense of the BSG God, just the dominant entities of their local situation on Kobol. They would, however, have ascertained something about the existence of the BSG God, for which they gave the terms “The One Whose Cannot Be Spoken,” and “Kobol’s Jealous God.” They tried to defeat it, to break the Cycles, but they failed. Or maybe not entirely. Maybe they kept a fractured Cycle from completely ending, kept it going to pass over to our heroes a better chance in overtime.

Jennythenipper wrote:

Also what is Kara. You give us a behind the curtains view of the Wizard's clockworks by showing where the clone Starbucks are housed. So she is an angel but also a clone? I think if there were one thing I could change in your wonderful fic, and this is really just a nitpick, would be that Lee would wind up with a clone Starbuck instead of an 8.


I think Kara is the most difficult concept. There is always a Harbinger, cycle after cycle, and Kara has that role. But was she actually what God envisioned, or was she tainted? Remember when Cavil was cracking up and had his vision of all that would come, and there was one line: "some girl with a destiny born attuned to the residues of Daniel..." So he did something, and it's fair to say she would have been a quasi-hybrid of some kind. The question is, when it comes to Kara's origins, was Cavil's influence doing what God wanted, what he wanted, or some mix of the two? I'd guess the latter, because that was Cavil's whole Plan--to transfer his desperate desire for some way out into everyone and everything while still flying under God's radar. That was his revelation: "What if we were all sleepers?"

So Kara is something unusual to begin with. Maybe the first true anomaly. Maybe God always intended for her to die in the Maelstrom and return, or maybe that is what became necessary because she wasn't quite right for God's purposes. In any event, she was resurrected on the dead Earth, using the prototype lab left behind by the Final Five. One can infer she wasn't quite right since multiple bodies were generated, possibly refining the mix. God would have used the resurrection equipment because it wanted to lure the Colonials to Earth to break them and because direct divine resurrection would have created another entity besides Hera with a direct link to it. As we saw, that was God's Achilles Heel. Including the prototype lab in the mix also allowed me to let D'Anna continue with her resurrection experiments until she touched "the truth."

So, Daybreak happens. God is done with the Harbinger as this Cycle approaches closure. That's when Kara goes "poof," which would be her returning to the stuff of the universe, the mathematical substrate from which God derives. The BSG heaven is simply a null state if you're inclined to kind descriptions, or an identity-less purgatory if you're not. But Kara is different. Something of her identity coalesces to be met by her piano player, who is part of God, the part that knows the futility of all this. It appears in the form of a Lord of Kobol, the man Athena loved and killed to buy a chance that failed.

That was this meeting from Part Eight:

“Not exactly,” he says. “And you can consider that a freebie.” He stops playing. “Now don’t get me wrong. There’s a great deal of Kara Thrace in you, but you’re not just that.”

“Then answer the damn question! What am I?”

“Meaning. A hypothesis.”

“Answer damn you!”

“An idea willed into existence by the universe. More or less.” He slips left to clear a spot for her on the piano bench. She doesn’t take it.

“The harbinger of death?”

He starts playing again. It’s maddening. “Your turn Kara Thrace. One question. I ask, and you answer in complete truth. Deal?”

“Frak you.”

“I’ll take that as yes. So, willed into being by the universe. Why would that be? To enter a handful of coordinates into a toy and write off forty thousand souls.” He looks up at her. “Can you honestly believe in a universe that cruel?”

Thank you. Finally something, some small shred of hope. “No,” she breathes with all her heart.

“Unfortunately, I can.” It’s a gut punch, draining everything out of her. She stands there lost and alone. “Then let’s see what we can do for each other,” he says, motioning again for her to sit. She finally does.

They begin to play.


The piano player is also the one without a name contrasted with God later:

Plans

It has waited forever. The One Whose Name Cannot be Spoken.

Every cycle ends as it began, all failures forgotten, the future infinite in its newest template. This could be the one, the whole… The Name. Let a complex system repeat itself long enough, let the combinations permutate without end, and it must happen. This must end, become whole.

The purge is beautiful, the most cathartic part of the cycle, when another dead husk drops away. When all things are once more possible, when its essence trembles with hope.

This time. The new seed.

Hera.

She will be the one. It believes that, as it has believed every cycle.

###

It has waited forever. The One Without a Name.

Every cycle ends as it began, born in failure, the future damned as it becomes the past. This, too, will fail, never be whole. Let a complex system repeat itself long enough, let the combinations permutate without end, and you still have nothing. Fool’s gold.

The purge is always the same, every inevitability playing out as it must, the cruelest part of the cycle. When all things die, when its essence weeps at the horror.

This time. These people.

Hera.

They could still be the one. But it dares not hope.


All very complex, I know. Starbuck was sui generis.

Jennythenipper wrote:
Still, I liked Terry. At first I thought she was just a Mary Sue, but after a while I think I saw her as a parody of a Mary Sue. Instead of being magically able to fit into the world of the "real" BSG characters, she was the odd woman out, and had to learn everything from scratch. That was brilliant. Also I loved that she was a fangirl that just happened to be in the right place at the right time and was able to become heroic.


Yeah, Terry was a parody. It's just that she filled a natural role as the story evolved. She was the odd woman out, so she could see things without some of the built-in blind spots everyone else had acquired. She just wanted everyone to get along, and became heroic for it. :wink:

My personal favorite was her oh-so-sweet line to Boomer: "You're my hero, you vicious, screwed up bitch." Terry had a very high emotional intelligence; she had good instincts about what people needed to hear.

Jennythenipper wrote:
You imply in your story that cylons are only able to reproduce when they are resurrection virgins, which has a certain kind of twisted internal logic, since one would imagine that reproduction for immortal beings would be unnecessary from an an evolutionary point of view. Since evolution is just a cog in the whole God experiment, I can see God making that rule to balance things out. All nature is a giant equilibrium machine afterall. That's what so cool about making boomer the pivot point. She represents balance more than any other character on the show.


That point about Boomer is observant. It’s exactly why she is the pivot point. Part of Cavil’s final, desperate vision was an in-betweener, someone who had lived both sides of the story. And he chose the only person who'd believed in him. The only one who'd shown him compassion and love, the one already torn between him and Tyrol—his precious Eight, who might be beautiful again the way she'd been for him. He believed she could suffer what he'd suffered and not crack, hoped she was better than him. Of course she wasn’t; she just had some friends to hold her together when it mattered most.

There’s something very wrong with God, or whatever you call it. It’s in pieces. Starbuck saw a hint of that while witnessing the goddess Athena’s death in Kobol’s past. The Cycles are wrong, a driver imposed on the universe ages ago in a dying act of anguish. Cycle after cycle, they fail. Cycle after cycle, it goes on. But this time, nothing is exactly as it seems. A tragically insane Cavil loved Sharon Valerii enough that he created a universe of sleepers, crafted shells within shells to resist divine manipulation. He accepted his monstrous destiny in the hope she would find hers. That she could crash the whole bloody thing in a way nothing can foresee.

And she did, not with the vengeance, which would have failed, but with that last tiny spark that lingers at the end of all the roads to ruin--simple compassion. She alone understood the BSG God, because she alone had really been there, caught in the balance of a unsolvable dilemma. And who knows, maybe Cavil's ability to sense that in her dribbled down from the Lords of Kobol keeping alive a fractured Cycle.

It’s actually impossible to really make sense out of Boomer or Cavil’s plan the way the show left it, but I think this does, without rewriting what we actually saw.

Jennythenipper wrote:
I also got to thinking about Blade Runner which I hadn't watched in years, because of your little BR easter egg. There is so much of Blade Runner in the first two seasons I didn't ever realize. Of course there's the Edward James Olmos connection, but there's the whole concept of robots who think they are human and who are given fake memories. One thing about replicants versus cylons is of course the ability to resurrect, whereas the replicants had a planned obsolesence built in. Cavil is very much like Roy angrily facing his creator for the flaws in his creation. Data's evil twin had some of that but you really bring the nihilism of Cavil back to Roy for me, which is great.


Thanks. I liked the parallels. And like Roy, Cavil doesn't give in totally to his rage. He gave them all a chance in his own tormented way.

As has been said, this story has compassion for them all, every one. :)

Glad you enjoyed it.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:17 pm 
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NT2: Thought you might like to read what Lemon Bar posted over on Syfy. It's so well written and expresses the thoughts of many of us BSG fans who were disappointed with the finale.

Quote:
So now that I’ve had a little time to think about it (and vacation is over), I want to thank you all again and close out by saying I like SASN all the more. It’s a puzzle box whose pieces truly fit. And **** if I didn’t actually cry for the Battlestar God.

The thing that’s so powerful about that spectacular final battle is its sense of despair. It really is nightfall, but at the same time it’s exhilarating. The despair is as delirious, as it is magnificent. They don’t know they’re up against God, as hopeless a battle as there is. They can’t win. And yet they’ve gone all in, every last one, clenching down tighter and tighter as the hope is crushed out of them. D’Anna’s mocking quote to Baltar captures it perfectly: “And when the sky begins to roar, it's like a lion at the door; and when the door begins to crack, it's like a stick across your back; and when your back begins to smart; it's like a penknife in your heart; and when your heart begins to bleed, you're dead, and dead, and dead indeed.”

Everyone gets their moment: Starbuck is a true angel, scraping and gambling with fate to bring them home; Roslin and Hera face off with the terrible truth of the Cycles at ground zero; Athena stands her ground for all those who ever tried and failed; Tigh pushes himself past the point of no return to save a world, Ellen with him heart and soul; Lee and Helo and those magnificent Raiders walk the bleak line between glory and slaughter; Caprica puts her life on the line to give Baltar a chance; and Baltar responds with a shocking act as brutal as is selfless. And, of course, Adama makes his call. Then it’s all down to Galen and Boomer, battling themselves and each other for all the marbles.

Why do they deserve to survive? That’s the only question, the one posed by the miniseries. Bleeding and battered, in shock and despair, they have only one answer: because we’re still here. With no hope, no God to save them, no faith beyond their own pain, they don’t flinch. Going down together, Cylon and human alike, they create a moment of time where every last prophecy and theme from the show, what it means to be human, what consciousness itself means, fuse into one bright shining whole. That’s the point of the beginning quote:

To suffer woes which Hope thinks infinite
To forgive wrongs darker than death or night;
To defy Power, which seems omnipotent;
To love, and bear; to hope till Hope creates from its own wreck the thing it contemplates...

Percy Shelley, Prometheus Unbound

The Magnificent Seven meets Rashoman. That’s the payoff the show was trying to create and IMO failed. And it actually leaves us with a better connection to the Colonials than that whole Eve mess. They didn’t give us some meaningless genetic junk. They gave us life itself. Free will. Our world was next on the block to be served up to the endless Cycles. But in the heavens above, a ruined civilization fought its Gotterdammerung, and against all odds, they changed their stars.

They changed our stars. Even the robot montage would work now. There is no God’s Plan, no repeating the same madness over and over again in the futile belief something surprising will happen. There’s just us and what we choose. That’s what they gave us. Their story, which realistically could have seeped through to us, has the lesson we need--what it means to be human. What our better angels can do in even the darkest nightfall.

Simply beautiful.

I honestly felt a twinge when Tigh and Ellen went to the wall. That became a lump in my throat when Baltar proved he’s not a wretch. I got misty-eyed with Adama, and the first tear came when Galen fought through the mess that life made of him to find a spark of unconditional love. And then Boomer—so help me frakking Boomer. The one character that makes almost no sense in the show suddenly makes perfect sense. She made me cry for the stupid Battlestar God.

I’ll admit I never paid much attention to Boomer in the show. After Season 1, she was a mess, an obvious after thought to the writers. The one question I always snarked about was the obvious one: why was she a sleeper agent? All the other Cylons did great knowing what they were. And given that deleted scene of her finding out about the destruction of Troy as she’s going to the Academy, the Cylons had to be behind that. Why go to all that effort, risk revealing your hand, just to make an inefficient and error prone saboteur on a second rate Battlestar?

Well now I know. And thankfully, it’s not what the show left us with, that they just considered the sleeper bit cool and never thought the whole thing out. It was John Cavil’s Plan, a mad, desperate plan the Cylons always had without knowing it. The Plan, whose scattered threads Starbuck finally found.

The parallel structures in this are incredible. On top, God and Cavil are fighting the identical battle, brought home in their final despair by the very one they were unwittingly teaching compassion all that time. On bottom, the Colonials and Cylons are fighting that same battle. They’re all wrestling with the hopeless misery of consciousness. It’s the battle the first Cycle lost, the battle Adama finally wins.

Down the homestretch, Boomer and Baltar are twins. They’re both taking a beating in a life-and-death battle. He’s thinking furiously, trying to find some way to put the facts together to make his decision; she’s thinking furiously, trying to find some way to put the emotions together to make her decision. Ellen and Tigh and Galen are all fighting the same battle, trying to find the humanity in their forgotten past. Which is exactly what Cavil did to set the whole thing in motion. What God has been trying to do forever.

Adama and Boomer even make the exact same decision. Pushed to the wall, each knows what they’re supposed to do. Duty says they must do something horrible to keep a losing hand going a little bit longer. But there’s that nagging question: why do you deserve to survive? And what does it mean to be human?

The themes are integrated so deep. It ends with something massive coming together that I was looking for after the first season of BSG. I wish I could say more, but that would give it all away.

Great stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:10 am 
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Quote:
The Centurions lift Apollo on their shoulders like some fallen hero of myth. They carry him down, where he’ll either live or die.

She’s surprised at how much she wants him to live.


Charlie's asleep. I should be too, but drank too much tea. I had a little bit of time; not enough to start the next chapter of Voice of Reason or do anything meaningful on my own writing, so I reread this little section. I think the chapter is my favorite one; it has the great scene with Lee on the plateau, Boomer baking cupcakes, and the wonderful bit where she meets Boxey again and his stories just keep getting worse and worse.

NT2, When you wrote this is there any music that you listened to to get in the mood, or songs you heard that gave you ideas? I've been listening to Van Halen and Bond (the string quartet) when planning out the details of how to write the next OTS; I've listened to Bear McCreary's stuff in the past when working on BSG fanfic to get in the right frame of mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:46 pm 
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Thanks, arial. That was a good read. :thx: :blush:


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 Post subject: Re: Sometimes a Stupid Notion, NT2, Boomer/Tyrol, Boomer/Cavil,
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:00 pm 
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Chris Taylor wrote:
Quote:
The Centurions lift Apollo on their shoulders like some fallen hero of myth. They carry him down, where he’ll either live or die.

She’s surprised at how much she wants him to live.


Charlie's asleep. I should be too, but drank too much tea. I had a little bit of time; not enough to start the next chapter of Voice of Reason or do anything meaningful on my own writing, so I reread this little section. I think the chapter is my favorite one; it has the great scene with Lee on the plateau, Boomer baking cupcakes, and the wonderful bit where she meets Boxey again and his stories just keep getting worse and worse.

NT2, When you wrote this is there any music that you listened to to get in the mood, or songs you heard that gave you ideas? I've been listening to Van Halen and Bond (the string quartet) when planning out the details of how to write the next OTS; I've listened to Bear McCreary's stuff in the past when working on BSG fanfic to get in the right frame of mind.


I've always listened to music to some degree or another when writing. It helps set the mood. I often will use a specific piece when I'm aiming for a certain emotional sense. For example, Tori Amos' "Girl" was pretty much the Boomer theme song, revisited numerous times. Interestingly enough, it also carried over into the Hera scenes. Same issue, different perspective, I suppose

Lots of different music went into Sometimes a Stupid Notion: classical, hip hop, everything from the Beatles to Lady Gaga and back. :whistle: David Bowie and The Killers were big, also One Republic. Tori Amos, Peter Gabriel, Fleetwood Mac and even the Black Eyed Peas at unusual moments. Funny you should mention Van Halen. Their one contribution was "Why Can't This Be Love" for the big Boomer/Galen fight at the end. It gave me just the right sense of irony to play it serious.

As far as the Part Six you cite (cupcakes and Lee), I can recall some of the specific songs used there. The opening scene introducing Siobhan was Tori Amos again, "Tear in Your Hand." It captures the sense of dislocation I was looking for in Boomer, how she's both intensely feeling and strangely numb, living her life and observing it at the same time. Her sense of responsibility is so strong, her inability to let anyone go so palpable, that her emotional state is surreal. These people looking to her for something, anything, have such power over her, and they don't even know it. But she does. She just doesn't know what to do about it. That's the wedge I used to give everyone else meaningful roles to play. It's not a story about Boomer the hero because she really can't do this on her own; she needs all these people with power over her to bridge the gap. I thought that interpretation was pretty true to the best of the show.

Helo and Athena. That was Peter Gabriel, "Don't Give Up." Lee's rescue was the soundtrack for "Grosse Point Blank." That had a certain frenetic quality I was looking for. It also wound back to that sense of detachment about her own life you quote:

"The Centurions lift Apollo on their shoulders like some fallen hero of myth. They carry him down, where he’ll either live or die.

She’s surprised at how much she wants him to live."

It's interesting you like Part 6 so much, because that's the clear transition piece. It's still got broad humor (Boxy), but it's moving away from that as the driver to something serious (Lee on the plateau, for example). Part Seven completes the transition and is really the emotional and conceptual core of the entire thing. The story of what really happened with Cavil and the Final Five is the Cycles writ small. It's about trying to make it right, wiping the slate, and how awful that becomes. A young Galen wants to right the foundational loss of his life by recreating Resurrection, and he inadvertently helps Saul and Ellen destroy their world, which they never meant to happen. Cavil is a leader of the Colony's Centurions in their horrible war, sees in the Final Five a chance to make that right. The Final Five see in him and his people a chance to make their wrong right, to wipe the slate. All this hunger for redemption driving horror after horror, consuming billions of lives. Just like the Battlestar God who is manipulating them.

But in all that horror, what's different this time is a twisted strand of hope. Galen makes an Eight in the image of his greatest loss. He makes her beautiful the way she is in memory, innocent. Cavil, now the prisoner of his own belief in the Five's promise, is drawn to that. She's a painkiller for what he knows is coming, what has always been coming, all that terrible need for redemption sunk deep in the core of the universe. And what finally breaks him is that he believes in her. With blood already on his hands, he believes that she can make this right. For one single moment, he believes that the Eight who will become Boomer and the one called Galen can fix this. But God dangles redemption in front of Ellen, Galen and the Eight die, and he snaps. He does what he's supposed to, what was always inevitable, but as Saul's blood soaks his hands, it's all so hopeless and miserable that he finally gets it. He understands the hatred that started the Cycles, the despair disguised as hope fueling a God that never should have been, that should have been beautiful, and he has his mad stroke of genius: "What if we were all sleepers?" He's a monster now, but before he's completely gone, he gives them all one last chance.

Dark stuff. A tragedy too great for words. So, obviously the music for that Part was different. Lots of classical music, sad stuff, some Anggun and Sophie B. Hawkins for the love songs, Vanessa Mae for sad classical with driving energy ("I'm a-doun for lack o' Johnnie" is probably the Galen/Boomer/Cavil theme). The Killers "When You Were Young," The Hooters "Where Do the Children Go," Peter Gabriel "Red Rain" for its sense of doom.

David Bowie's "Under Pressure" recurred a lot. So did "Absolute Beginners" in the final battle. It has this mournful sense of hope I found appropriate, particularly since they really are absolute beginners, sleepers finally waking up to the real world. And in the end, they realize that they are "absolutely sane" after all. :)

Long answer to a short question. One of those days, I guess.


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