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 Post subject: *** indirect BOOMER spoilers for the Xtended Daybreak ***
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 10:01 pm 
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These are comments of two lots of the current Live Auction. Can't "hide" them.

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hmmmmm. Not sure If I should be afraid or not. At least they're not dropping the "sleeper" part, no?

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 Post subject: Re: *** indirect BOOMER spoilers for the Xtended Daybreak ***
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:24 am 
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That first one kind of bothers me. Are they seriously going to show us Boomer finding out her parents are dead? So we get to feel even more sorry for her, knowing at the same time how the show will treat her. That seems a little sadistic.

Gina Inviere? That has to be before they're deployed, right? Boomer was never near Pegasus. So the "activated" would be referring to before she's made a sleeper agent. Don't like that. Sounds like we'll see the pre-Boomer "Eight" personality. That would be a good way to mess things up even more.

Thanks for the heads up anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: *** indirect BOOMER spoilers for the Xtended Daybreak ***
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 1:24 am 
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So what do you think?

Pre-Boomer Eight naively discusses mission with Six. Starts paying the unexpected emotional price as Boomer with news of her parent's death. Ultimately rescues Hera, choosing her Boomer side over her Eight side, thereby repaying her debt to the two drunken jerks.

The resulting retcon implicates Boomer's "eight" persona in the attack on the Colonies. Can't say I like that.

Could possibly mean beofre Boomer is activated to do something, but when would Gina have been around Galactica? Would still have to be before the attack.


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 Post subject: Re: *** indirect BOOMER spoilers for the Xtended Daybreak ***
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 9:22 am 
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I think it means that:

1) The Cylons "use" the Troy accident to explain why Boomer hasn't any relatives. At this state, she's already "activated" and believes she's human. I assume she's at the flightschool academy and one of the officers there tells her the "sad" news.

2) We will also see "pre-activated" Boomer. This has to be at least two years before the beginning of the attack. So Gina would be alive. This discussion can happen on any Cylon environment.

THE QUESTION IS: Why wasn't Boomer "turned back" after Downloaded? The writers can try as hard as they want, there will still be a problem here.
Everything seemed to hint at the fact that Boomer was specifically created for her sleeper mission and didn't have any "private" Cylon life before. Why would she pathetically try to "stick" to human behavior, otherwise?

Peuh. That's sad.

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 Post subject: Re: *** indirect BOOMER spoilers for the Xtended Daybreak ***
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 10:08 am 
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(1) Still seems kind of sadistic to see poor Boomer take another emotional blow, real or not. Maybe we could work in that false memory of when she was five and her kitten was hit by a car while we're at it.

(2) Pre-activated Boomer. So it would seem. But the Boomer as presented in the show didn't really seem to know how to be a Cylon, which would support your interpretation of her origin. That's what I'd always assumed. It seemed obvious at the time.

Downloaded is simply inexplicable at this point. That Boomer was surprisingly coherent and capable given what she's been through. Held her own without divine assistance even while being manipulated by Caprica and Head Baltar. Presented as basically a good person, too. How you get from there to snapping Hera's neck is inexplicable (beyond forced writing).

And you're right. The problem with a preexisting Boomer personality is that we never saw a single hint of it, even after she downloaded and it should have been there. You would think the sleeper program is archived in resurrection so that the original program reasserts. There's no point to having a sleeper Boomer back in Cylon land.

The only possible explnation I can see is that preexisting Boomer is a Cavil-built shell and he doesn't want it to reassert until he needs it. That would explain Boomer's drastic change in personality after New Caprica (again totally unexplained at the time) and her final act of redemption would be fighting through the program.

Of course we both know the most likely answer is simply "don't give a flip" writing. I'll continue to hope it doesn't turn out as bad as it could.


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 Post subject: Re: *** indirect BOOMER spoilers for the Xtended Daybreak ***
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 10:53 am 
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It doesn't make sense given what we're shown in "Downloaded." Sharon Valerii explicitly referred to Caprica as a liar because she "knew" what she was, and it still doesn't explain why she - alone - was a sleeper agent when nobody else is. Under that logic, shouldn't Gina have been a sleeper agent as well? This is what bothers me about the show when they present some half-baked presentation of an idea that has no weight to it. It's like when Galen told Sharon she should have known better about New Caprica and making a reference to putting a gun to people's head, despite the New Caprica episodes having Boomer as the one constantly arguing against the big stick policy that even Caprica eventually went along with. I'm a little tired of fan fic explaining the damn plot holes this show gives us.

I'm following RDM's rule now - deleted scenes don't count as cannon. Meaning I don't have to try to rationalize this retroactive continuity making any sort of sense. And that means Eighthena is still alive. :write:

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 Post subject: Re: *** indirect BOOMER spoilers for the Xtended Daybreak ***
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 10:56 am 
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NT2 wrote:
Maybe we could work in that false memory of when she was five and her kitten was hit by a car while we're at it.

Uh.... I've SEEN that in a BSG-comic. Seen (in a BSG site, where several pages had been scanned), not read, of course.

In Blade Runner, Rachael had this "fake" memory (from Tyrell's niece) about the spider that was building her web ... but this was really fitting into the story, smoothless.

http://www.filmsite.org/blad2.html

[It may be that Tyrell, who plays a God or Creator figure in the film, may have been forcing Deckard and Rachael to be his own personal Adam and Eve, by putting them together as the only two replicants with implanted memories.] In his low-ceilinged apartment, he remains stand-offish. To prove who she really is, she shows him a childhood photograph: "Look, it's me with my mother," to convince Deckard that she isn't a replicant. The photo shows Rachael as a young girl sitting next to her 'mother' on a porch.

And then, to affirm the results of the Voight-Kampff test, Deckard recounts two examples of memory implants that have been placed in her brain - (1) a childhood game of doctor and nurse, and (2) a spider with an egg that hatched:

a memory about 'playing doctor' - "Do you remember when you were six? You and your brother snuck into an empty building through a basement window - you were gonna play doctor. He showed you his, but when it got to be your turn, you chickened and ran. Remember that? Did you ever tell anybody that? Your mother? Tyrell? Anybody?"

a second memory (using the audio cues from the V-K test) about hatching baby spiders eating their mothers - "You remember the spider that lived in a 'bush outside your window'? 'Orange body, green legs'? Watched her build a web all summer? Then one day, there's a big egg in it. The egg hatched..." Rachael finishes the sentence: "...and a hundred baby spiders came out. And they ate her."

In one of the most emotionally painful scenes in the film, he brutally and cruelly tells her that her memories are only implants, and that she is just a robot with emotions. Without compassion, he destroys a dream of humanness that she maintains:

"Implants! Those aren't your memories. They're somebody else's. They're Tyrell's niece's. (Pause) OK, bad joke. I made a bad joke. You're not a replicant. Go home, OK? No really, I'm sorry. Go home." (Pause)

Replicants aren't supposed to be emotional, but because Rachael is 'more human than human,' tears well up in her heartbroken, watery eyes, and they liberally flow down her cheek. Her face melts after he pounds in the truth. When Deckard leaves the room to get Rachael a drink (lights turn on automatically as he enters his kitchen), she flees the apartment - devastated. As he picks up her discarded snapshot (of Tyrell's niece as a child with her mother), the shadows on the porch in the picture wave or move as if real for a moment or two, and the faint sounds of laughing children are heard. The picture of Rachael with her mother seems to briefly flicker to life.


Ridley Scott, with Philip K. Dick's consent, used his novel Do Androids dream of electric sheep and made something beautiful and different. Something COHERENT, too. I guess everyone can't do that.

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 Post subject: Re: *** indirect BOOMER spoilers for the Xtended Daybreak ***
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 7:03 pm 
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Never seen a BSG comic, but I'll take your word for it. How odd. (And that moment in Bladerunner is great.)

If this is an extended Daybreak (like a director's cut), then they're not really deleted scenes. Who wrote "Downloaded" anyway? Were they run off by people who hated Boomer? And why spend on all this time on flashbacks for a character they disdain? :?:

More fundamentally, if Boomer had a pre-existing Cylon personality, what's the point of the whole sleeper thing? Wouldn't she be a more effective saboteur knowing who she was and simply lying to everyone (like Caprica and Gina)? And there's no way you'd leave a sleeper personality in place after resurrection.

I'll give it a chance. But if it's simply stupid or an obvious CYA for the messed up plotting of seasons 3 and 4, then I'm sticking with what I saw when I watched it the first time. The contract betwteen writer and reader (or viewer) is that you can shade and miislead, but you never deliberately misrepresent.


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 Post subject: Re: *** indirect BOOMER spoilers for the Xtended Daybreak ***
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 8:42 pm 
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Downloaded was written by Bradley Thompson and David Weddle, who usually did a pretty good job writing for Grace's characters. The Plan was written by Jane Espenson, who didn't start writing for BSG until the third season, I believe. So maybe she doesn't know...or care...about what took place in earlier episodes.


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 Post subject: Re: *** indirect BOOMER spoilers for the Xtended Daybreak ***
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 8:53 pm 
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NT2 wrote:
Downloaded is simply inexplicable at this point. That Boomer was surprisingly coherent and capable given what she's been through. Held her own without divine assistance even while being manipulated by Caprica and Head Baltar. Presented as basically a good person, too. How you get from there to snapping Hera's neck is inexplicable (beyond forced writing).


Clearly Sharon Valerii was driven insane by the weeks of frustration and stress of listening to Hera cry and not be able to either console her or get the other Cylons to help take care of the child. It makes so much sense now, and it explains everything.

I am now anxiously awaiting the deleted scene where Boomer drags a 6 or 3 out of Baltar's bed by her hair and yells, "If you dumb %itches don't get your useless @$$es downstairs and help me take care of this screaming poop machine I swear to God that the next thing you'll see is the inside of a resurrection vat!!"

Gotta go. Charlie's fussy.

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Last edited by Chris Taylor on Sat May 09, 2009 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: *** indirect BOOMER spoilers for the Xtended Daybreak ***
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 8:53 pm 
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One other thought.

It's just possible that the Gina bit refers to a scene right before Colonial Warrior Boomer is activated (i.e., machine turned on) to do something we didn't previously see. That could still be before the attack. Kind of weird to throw in a scene like that, but then, the critical nature of Adama vomiting always escaped me.

I had that thought because all the other flashbacks occur on Caprica. That seemed to be the theme. Now, I guess a self-aware Cylon Boomer could be on Caprica talking to Gina, but that would be a really cheap shot. Nobody else had a flashback depicting them as a character we never knew.

Two postcripts: (1) Sounds like Daybreak was symbolic of Boomer's fate in the whole series. Boomer material written, some filmed, but when it came time to cut... :frak: (2) If they spent all that time on flashbacks for a character they ignored for two years (except when they were mangling her), isn't that kind of an admission of screwing up? If she was worth that kind of effort in the finale, maybe she was worth a little more in the actual show. :plan: Yeah, sure you do.


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 Post subject: Re: *** indirect BOOMER spoilers for the Xtended Daybreak ***
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 8:55 pm 
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Chris Taylor wrote:
NT2 wrote:
Downloaded is simply inexplicable at this point. That Boomer was surprisingly coherent and capable given what she's been through. Held her own without divine assistance even while being manipulated by Caprica and Head Baltar. Presented as basically a good person, too. How you get from there to snapping Hera's neck is inexplicable (beyond forced writing).


Clearly Sharon Valerii was driven insane by the weeks of frustration and stress of listening to Hera cry and not be able to either console her or get the other Cylons to help take care of the child. It makes so much sense now, and it explains everything.

I am now anxiously awaiting the deleted scene where Boomer drags a 6 or 3 out of Baltar's bed by her hair and yells, "If you dumb %itches don't get your useless @$$es downstairs and help me take care of this screaming kid I swear to God that the next thing you'll see is the inside of a resurrection vat!!"

Gotta go. Charlie's fussy.


Tha's very funny. And congratulations. As a parent, you have now demonstrated "applied knowledge."
:giggles:


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