It is currently Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:10 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Boomer Is Love...The Sequel
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:05 pm 
Offline
Mayor of Dogsville
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:14 am
Posts: 38
NT2 wrote:
I've said it before Lobsel--you simply can't get from the Boomer in "Downloaded" to the Boomer in later Season 3 and 4 based on what the show presented. Whatever her faullts, the Boomer presented even through New Caprica is fundamentally caring person. Then...BLAM, bitchy high school girl to Athena, snap Hera's neck, pathetic Cavil tagalong who was responsible for New Caprica even though she sure didn't look like she was in charge when it was happening. Then she's just an obvious plot device to force the show's premature ending. It's like a new personality everytime we see her.

Unless he still had programming hooks in her, Cavil would have had to been selling something better than we saw in Season 4 to make the Boomer we saw. The only shot at making it work was to make Cavil at least partly legitimate, and they didn't do that.

Terrible waste of a character you could do amazing things, good or bad, with after the setup through Season 2. :blow:


I've read an interesting story with Cavil and Boomer, Symphony of Twelve and one of the central points that hooked me in was that the writer didn't try to change Boomer like the TPTB did, she was still the caring person who had feelings for humanity and now her own "sisters," the rebels, Tyrol and now Cavil. It's something I think TPTB had lost in how they chose to write stories - that ability to have stories and characters comprising those tales to be in shades of gray instead of black and white.

Your story Midnight Courage was an interesting approach to explain why Boomer seemed all over the place character-wise, but I can't help but feel the scene in Rapture (that started the Good Sharon, Bad Sharon ideology) is precisely like the cause of Natalie's death - neither scene really makes sense and exists only to propel the story instead of the characters. Boomer has to die on the Basestar because Caprica and Athena need to get off the ship, but realistically, they really couldn't. (RDM said as much in the podcast for Rapture.) Realistically, Boomer could have helped, (I'm sure there was a contingency plan to get Hera out if the ship was attacked she would have been privy to as Hera's caretaker) and maybe even died helping Athena and Caprica escape, but instead Boomer - who in the prior episode informed Athena that Hera was sick and the Cylons couldn't help her - now wants Hera dead? Makes as much sense as Cavil's rectoned plan for humanity in No Exit. It bothers me. The writers seemed to lack foresight (recognizing how popular Natalie would be with some fans or how people would think Starbuck was Daniel's daughter), didn't even bother with some characters (Simon the Cylon, Caprica Six's pregnancy, Athena getting laundry duty instead of story-telling in S3) and Boomer was part of this problem. Boomer and other characters suffered for it, since the writers simply bend the characters to fit whatever role they need to be accommodated.

Part of the reason Boomer is forced to be the antagonist is Athena, out of what I'm assuming is some soap opera rule of needing one good twin and one bad twin. (A lot of what happened with Boomer at the end of Season 4 seemed pretty text-book soap to me.) Personally, I really think it would've been interesting to see Boomer on the same side as Athena, there's no reason they shouldn't be. There's so much baggage between the two that it would have made for some great character development to actually see them interact with each other, deal with their shared memories and differences, possibly even find out Boomer's own part in the New Caprica rescue. I think it could have been woven into the New Caprica plot - Felix getting the intel that wouldn't have been left lying around from Boomer (for instance, why any intel would reveal the number of Basestars orbiting the planet, the frequency that made it possible to send transmissions through the Cylon blockade of transmissions, finding where Cally was being taken, Jammer conveniently being located in the group where Cally was, ect.) It would've also opened up the real scifi part of the story - Athena being fundamentally changed because of the memories of Sharon Valerii - it's the point where she stopped being an Eight and became Sharon, a different Sharon. I guess they felt we would be confused, which might explain why the nailed the coffin on poor Eighthena (who luckily 'survived' due to the editing process, heh).

_________________
“No… something extraordinary has happened. Something is calling to us, pushing us to discover our origins, to understand our place in the universe.” – Natalie, Six of One


Last edited by Lobsel Vith on Sat May 02, 2009 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Boomer Is Love...The Sequel
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:06 pm 
Offline
Constable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:08 am
Posts: 619
I read the "Symphony of Twelve." That's what I meant about Season 3 and 4. If you want the Boomer of that period to have any credibility relative to Seasons 1 and 2, then Cavil also has to have some credibility. He can't be just a super-villain with a lair and mommy issues. He has to articulate legitimate points that can't be dismissed out of hand. The sort of "shades of gray" thing the show did well in its early years.

One suggestion I've discussed with others: What if the Final Five simply stumbled into a situation they didn't understand, saw it falsely through the experience of their world and made things worse?

What if Cavil is just wearily playing the hand they dealt? What if instead of hating Ellen for loving little Danny more, he just thinks she's an idiot consumed by her own hubris? Maybe no one is truly "in the right." Humans abused Cylons piteously, the Final Five sent everything to hell with the best of intentions, and Cylons abused humans piteously in return.

What if Cavil was actually looking for an exit, too? Boomer could clarify something about that for him. His nauseating ennui could actually be touched by her agony in straddling those lines. Then maybe they mean something to each other, and maybe they're actually part of God's plan, too. She could even redeem him.

Sort of have to plan ahead in the writing for that sort of thing, though. And they obviously didn't.

You know, I'm actually tempted to write that. Except it would likely be too much work, because it requires rejuggling a lot of the show.


Top
 Profile  
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Boomer Is Love...The Sequel
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:37 pm 
Offline
Mayor of Dogsville
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:14 am
Posts: 38
That would have been a brilliant story to play out, NT2. It would have made more sense than a nearly 40 year old plan of revenge with an atheist starting a religious war against humanity, especially given how Brother Cavil and Rebel Cavil explain the war when each of them are captured at the conclusion of Season 2. Honestly, I see No Exit clashing much more with what we've previously seen than explaining it, and your explanation removes the black/white hat that 4.5 inserted, with Cavil wearily trying to deal with the legacy the Final Five and the original Centurions left for him while trying to weave through it to find his own destiny.

Regarding the problem of rewriting what we've witnessed (especially with No Exit), I think you could work that into the actual storyline by having Cavil's interactions with Ellen simply be part of the theatrics of Cavil trying to lull Ellen into a false sense of superiority - he lied about wanting to pluck around into her head, why not have him lie about everything else? That's if you would work that backstory into the cannon we saw.

I think it would've taken more than being some black hat supervillain to get the loyalty of Sharon Valerii, along with the millions of Simons and Dorals who sided with him in No Exit. We never get any sense of why they all chose to side with progenitor Cavil and the Ones. I thought Boomer's loyalty might have been from Cavil confiding in her what originally transpired on Earth and Kobol - the rebellion of the first Cylons, the war between the Cylons and Centurions on Earth. (Based on Boomer's vote in Six of One). I'm not sure the writers thought about their perspective, though; from what little I've read about The Plan, I don't think we're going to be given any real character development with Boomer or Cavil. (I hope I'm wrong in this regard).

Boomer's actions in the latter part of Season 3 and 4 certainly don't make sense given what we're shown. An interesting fan fiction featuring Boomer on New Caprica is From A Balance Beam and From A Balance Beam Part 2 that actually keeps in line the Sharon Valerii who doesn't agree with the big stick policy of the Cylon Occupation, before it was rectonned that Boomer was responsible for the whole shebang. I certainly think you could write a convincing portrait of Boomer helping Cavil realize that there could be a third way that should be explored for the Cylons, and it would've made more sense in the context of the story instead of making everything so black and white.

_________________
“No… something extraordinary has happened. Something is calling to us, pushing us to discover our origins, to understand our place in the universe.” – Natalie, Six of One


Top
 Profile  
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Boomer Is Love...The Sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:52 am 
Offline
Constable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:08 am
Posts: 619
So Vith, I took a small shot at that. It's in the Boomer fan fiction.

Basically, if continued, it would show that Boomer is absolutely the cause of the Cylon Civil War. The root cause. She would be the reason Cavil loses his grip, the reason Deanna starts hunting the Final Five, the reason the Cylon harmony starts breaking up. Sort of the ultimate case of blowback.


Top
 Profile  
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Boomer Is Love...The Sequel
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:10 pm 
Offline
Mayor of Dogsville
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:14 am
Posts: 38
Quote:
So Vith, I took a small shot at that. It's in the Boomer fan fiction.


Sounds interesting, I'll check it out.

Well, since this is the Boomer thread, I was wondering if anyone wanted to share any ideas about how they would have liked to see the character explored on the show or anything else Boomer in general. I always wondered what would've happened if Boomer had helped Athena and Caprica Six escape from the Basestar instead of getting her neck snapped to keep the soapish "Good Sharon, Bad Sharon bit" we got instead. We never really got the resolution between Boomer and Adama that would've been great to see, Athena seeing Boomer reflected in how she was treated during Season 2 when Helo brought her onboard, her relationships with her friend Helo and her former lover Tyrol. I suppose I lament the missed opportunities that Boomer had on the show. She was this fascinating character who really struggled against what her people tried to mold her to be, and she did something that I'm sure Cavil would have been intrigued about - she resisted and overcame her programming (i.e. Water). I suppose we'll never know why the Boomer of Downloaded was denigrated to being an antagonist, since it was Boomer and Caprica Six who convinced the Cylons to stop the war, that annihilating humanity was a sin, and not to destroy the settlement of New Caprica. :clap:

Boomer was a fighter, though. Refused to fall in line when she downloaded. During the first season she fought her programming, and ultimately lost despite her small victories (i.e. Water). We were never given any insight to know why she sided with Cavil or why she made the decisions she did post-New Caprica, and Roslin knew (i.e. Season 2 finale) that Boomer helped stop the war and convinced the other Cylons that destroying humanity was wrong. I would've liked to see Cavil treated as NT2 suggested, not some black hat supervillain but a character with genuine motives and struggles. More gray into the situation, no good and evil. I can see Boomer's ability to overcome her programming fascinating a "mechanic" like Cavil, especially if they had kept his original reasoning in line (our original programmers programmed us not to learn about the Final Five and going against it will destroy us) instead of "Cavil is the Devil and has some issues with his mommy" plot that they chose. :tomato:

Back in the day, I always thought we were going to see flashbacks with Felix and Boomer on New Caprica, and what she did there since she didn't approve of the "big stick" policy (before Rapture aired and 4.5 slapped me senseless). I realize a few fans thought Boomer placed Jammer on the truck to save Cally. Following that line of thought, I think it would've make sense that Felix kept getting highly classified information from Sharon that didn't seem like it'd be kept in the cabinets, like the frequency to avoid the Basestar frequency blockade. It would've been interesting to see if some of the other models shared her line of thought about the situation on New Caprica, since we never really got to see much diversity among the Cylons before they get killed off (i.e. Natalie and almost-kinda-sorta Eighthena). There's a lot of potential with Boomer, and if TPTB didn't realize that, at least there's fan fic to rectify that. :mrgreen:

Just my two cents.

_________________
“No… something extraordinary has happened. Something is calling to us, pushing us to discover our origins, to understand our place in the universe.” – Natalie, Six of One


Top
 Profile  
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Boomer Is Love...The Sequel
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:42 pm 
Offline
Hera's Fiance
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:55 pm
Posts: 716
Lobsel Vith wrote:
Well, since this is the Boomer thread, I was wondering if anyone wanted to share any ideas about how they would have liked to see the character explored on the show or anything else Boomer in general.


I have a few ideas. Some made it into fanfiction, but not all. Here's one to start with:

Have Boomer be resurrected 'evil' after her murder. Make it obvious that whatever programming made her forget her Cylon nature was gone. She regretted not doing a better job on her mission and having been 'weak' for loving Tyrol. Have her become the chief villainess in Season 3. In the original series Count Baltar was put in charge of the Cylon fleet hunting the human refugees because the Cylons thought that his being human would give him a better chance to understand and predict the actions of the Rag Tag Fleet. Boomer could have played the same role in Season 3 as head of the Cylon fleet chasing her old friends... only more so becasue Boomer wasn't just able to understand humans in general, she knew the personalities and quirks of the show's 'heroes' and could have played on that knowledge to destroy them.

What about Season 4? Well, she could get killed in some satisfying revenge at the end of Season 3... or she could stay the primary 'villainess'... or... they could give her the Farscape villain treatment and have her turn into a hero (or at least honorable and sympathetic character where fans go "Boomer's going to be in this episode! Aaawsome!!) by the end. Perhaps it could be done by having a story arc where Boomer realizes one of her own crew must be passing information to the RTF and tries everything to track down the spy (maybe she tortures some fellow 8s along the way). Begin the next episode with evil Boomer waking up in the shower in her quarters on the Cylon flagship. She's fully dressed but her clothes are soaked with tylium. The shower's running and there is a fresh change of clothes laid out. Suddenly the flagship sudders and she gets an urgent message that they've had a fuel system explosion and she's needed on the bridge immediately. Now she knows who the spy is that's been betraying the Cylons, and she knows what will happen to her if anyone finds out...

_________________
Avatar by my unknown Kindreds Secret Santa


Top
 Profile  
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Boomer Is Love...The Sequel
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 6:09 am 
Offline
Constable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:08 am
Posts: 619
(A) If you want Boomer to be an antagonist, how about this twist? She sees the Sharons on that Base Star. She gets a command activated to kill Racetrack, take the nuke back and detonate it inside Galactica. She fights that off to destroy the Base Star (because Adama personally appealed to her to take this mission). As she's totally out of it flying back, she can feel the command to shoot Adama. Her sense of loyalty pulls her through that one, too. Terrified, she orders Racetrack to pull her sidearm and blow her brains out if she tries to get out of her pilot's seat. Back on Galactica, she has herself placed in restraints inside the Raptor, then asks for Adama to see her. Having upheld her oath under the most difficult circumstances imaginable, she's trying to explain it to him. And WHAM! They just march her to an airlock and dump her out. She gets a first hand lesson in just how little Cylons count to humans, how little they ever counted. And suddenly she's rather sympathetic to the original Cylon rebellion.

Then, after being ambivalent about humans on New Caprica, she sees Athena wearing the uniform she died in after heroically saving the day. "YOU FRAKKING BAS***DS!" There's some legitimate anger that isn't poor Athena's fault. But Tyrol never did anything to her in this version, so she's seriously conflicted about him. And when she finds out he's a Cylon...well, let's just say he's not a dupe. He's a potential ally.

(B) Here's another. Suppose Chief doesn't ultimately reject her. Suppose they interact enough in that cell for him to realize it's not a Cylon in a Boomer disguise; it's just his Boomer, a terrified mess. Let's see--(1) your whole world was destroyed--check; (2) you're an indispensible second class citizen working under impossible conditions with little appreciation--check; (3) Tigh is a total a**hole--check; and (4) the odds of you making it to Earth alive, if there even is an Earth, are close to nonexistent--check. But you got this cute robot chick that honestly loves you. What the hell.

He promises to stand by her, no matter what. She promises to never lie to him again, no matter what. Then Cally does her thing. Obviously Chief ain't marrying Cally. It's all he can do to not pull a Tory on her.

Then New Caprica. Boomer promises the Cylons a successful coexistance in return for not nuking the place from orbit. So she gets the job--make this work or we're killing them all. With Tigh in jail, Chief takes over the resistance, determined to make this fail. He promised to stand by her no matter what; she promised to never lie to him. Now they're on a God awful collision course with the fate of humanity in the balance. She keeps her promise to him; he almost keeps his to her, flinching at the last moment, right after she's sacrificed everything for him. He just has to believe in her for five more minutes, but only makes it to four and a half. (Somehow, that's got to be Tigh's fault, right?) Everything goes to hell. In the aftermath, humanity's best hope with the Cylons is crushed, and a member of the Final Five, who has something important to do in God's plan, is a lost soul.

Then...Boomer starts seeing a rather eloquent Head Chief, while Chief starts seeing a rather snarky Head Boomer.

[Speaking of which, was anyone else irritated by the whole Caprica-Baltar romance. She knowingly lied to him and used him to murder 20 billion people; he was a narcissistic twit who treated her like his pet poodle while sleeping with every other woman he could get. Yeah, they had something real special going. :roll:]

(C) The riff I did in "Closest of Strangers," which would basically be about Boomer becoming the cause of the whole Cylon Civil War, not just because of her stupid vote, but because she's blowback. A caring virus introduced into "The Plan." Sort of a hate story infected by love. Boomer ultimately sees the Cylon Civil War through because she realizes it has to be (which it did--Galactica's on the short end of a big stick without it). She has an unhappy destiny, but it's hers--to feel compassion for all the parties while systematically grinding them down. But Cavil, who ultimately wants out as much as anyone, comes to love her for it. (Maybe he could even do a Darth Vader in his last moments--"You already saved me." ;) )

(D) Expand the whole programmed Boomer thing I did in "Midnight Courage."

(E) Boomer comes up with a plan to get everyone off New Caprica, but needs help from...Athena. Which is tough for Athena, since Adama just came to trust her and hates Boomer's guts.

There's more I haven't listed. That's what annoys me about the show's use of Boomer. It's so pitiful ater Season 1 and the character is so rich with potential..


Top
 Profile  
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Boomer Is Love...The Sequel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:40 pm 
Offline
Hera's Fiance
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:55 pm
Posts: 716
Am I the only one who absolutely despised the Boomer's Daybreak flashback where she is "given a second chance" by Cmd. Adama while Tigh makes snarky comments?

I think EJO played the scene completely wrong, appearing to be Season 4.5 Adama instead of Miniseries Adama. (And surely this scene must have taken place prior to the miniseries, or else there was a LOT more going on with Boomer than I ever suspected. Now that I think about it she was suspiciously missing from the Cylon ships for most of Season 3.5... :think: ) Perhaps he did the best he could with the dialog and scene directions that the writers gave him. Still he seemed less like an honorable military commander and father figure who is dealing with a troubled but promising young pilot, and more like an arrogant sultan tossing scraps to a starving girl and then laughing at her pretense of honor and dignity when she asserts that she'll find a way to repay what he's given her one day. :angry: Can anyone imagine George Washington behaving that way to one of his junior officers? Erwin Rommel? Robert E. Lee? Yamamoto? What a jerk.

Were the writers deliberately suggesting that Adama was an uninspiring leader before the Cylon attack who briefly rose to the circumstances before becoming a toothbrushing, whitewashing, crying drunk once again? (Though that would explain why he was given the oldest rust bucket Battlestar of the fleet, and he does show a terrible weakness for favoritism and nepotism through the whole series.) Or was it just bad writing? Bad acting? And as if that weren't enough the little flashback also manages to retroactively destroy the power of Adama's role in the episode Act of Contrition! WTF?

_________________
Avatar by my unknown Kindreds Secret Santa


Top
 Profile  
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Boomer Is Love...The Sequel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:10 pm 
Offline
Up The Riverworld Without A Paddle

Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:48 pm
Posts: 1100
Oh, you know, I don't even get which episode you refer to: Daybreak? Pah. That's some hastily-amateur-written thing, no?
So, the flashback or the rest... same boat.

Seriously: yeah, it's disturbing.

I still think that Michelle Forbes tried hard to give her character a little "humanity", in Razor, even if there wasn't much room left for her to do that. Some little details in specific scenes. And, if you're honest, you'll find them too. It's a good counter-example to that lame flashback.

EDIT: I wonder... was Cavil ever really mean to Boomer? I'm not sure. I don't know why, but the "pet-Eight" disturbs me less than this drunk rookie-harassing committee ... I mean, they knew she had nothing else. Frakkers.

_________________
Captain of the Praetorian Guard of Her Majesty Empress Boomer


Top
 Profile  
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Boomer Is Love...The Sequel
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:28 pm 
Offline
Constable
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:08 am
Posts: 619
I really don't think you can trust the flashbacks if you're trying to make sense out of the whole show. For example, they plan to have Tigh and Ellen together at the end (when Ellen was just dead and forgotten before they decided to make her a Cylon) , so they're presenting some idealized version of them pining to go away together that doesn't jibe with either the pilot or the first season. (Remember Starbuck--how's the wife?)

I liked Helo, Athena and Hera surviving. I liked the unusual sense of dignity Boomer showed at the end. I liked bits and pieces here and there. But overall, Daybreak is just kind of a strange conceptual mess. Maybe the extended version will miraculously save it, but I have my doubts.

That's what bothers me about "The Plan." At the point they were filming it, their primary motive might well have been CYA. Put together something that makes it all seem better planned than it was, regardless of what damage that does to the first season. And we all know which character that's likely to hurt most. (Although she has to retain enough integrity to be moved by Adama's drunken frat boy humiliation of her. :) Oh, well, at least we were spared the flashback of him sexually harrassing her.)


Top
 Profile  
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Boomer Is Love...The Sequel
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:55 am 
Offline
Mayor of Dogsville
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:14 am
Posts: 38
Pierre wrote:
I wonder... was Cavil ever really mean to Boomer? I'm not sure. I don't know why, but the "pet-Eight" disturbs me less than this drunk rookie-harassing committee ... I mean, they knew she had nothing else. Frakkers.


Adama seems to be a lousy commander, and I still see him as a dictator in light of the mutiny and all of the crap he pulled to ignore the needs of the people of the fleet.

I'd say that Cavil's ressurection of D'anna could have been orchastrated in such a way to give the rebels reason why Boomer would eventually defect (I basically play this idea in Ballad of Fallen Angels that Cavil is playing Ellen in his uberevil shtick to make sense of Boomer's fake-out insurrection) but I think the writers simply didn't care. Honest to frakking gods didn't care. Boomer's admission of knowing nothing about the attack contradicts the retroactive elements of Boomer in the later seasons, and even the later seasons have trouble gelling together. Does anyone even know why Simon and Aaron sided with Cavil? How Boomer found the fleet? Why everyone forgot Boomer was a sleeper agent when Boomer was imprisoned? It's disappointing.

_________________
“No… something extraordinary has happened. Something is calling to us, pushing us to discover our origins, to understand our place in the universe.” – Natalie, Six of One


Top
 Profile  
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Boomer Is Love...The Sequel
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 1:38 am 
Offline
Cylon Bible Thumper
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 545
Location: Northern NJ
Here ya go!!

a fic rec!

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5074339/1/Faint_Resolution

_________________
Sharon, Helo and Hera Always


Top
 Profile  
 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Boomer Is Love...The Sequel
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:30 am 
Offline
Hera's Fiance
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:55 pm
Posts: 716
weissman wrote:
a fic rec!


Thanks! I enjoyed it.

_________________
Avatar by my unknown Kindreds Secret Santa


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

Style by HighDefGeek
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group